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The PCA: Its Compromised Past, ... #53524
Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:43 PM
Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,472
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline OP

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Pilgrim  Offline OP

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NH, USA
The Presbyterian Church in America:
Its Compromised Past, Present Apostasy,
Spiritually Bleak Future - And Lessons to be Learned


The Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) is in deep spiritual crisis - far deeper than many, even within the denomination, realize. Theological liberals have made breathtakingly rapid inroads and now firmly control the PCA's agenda, while self-described conservatives have been ineffectual in their opposition.

On Sunday April 2nd at 6:00 PM U.S. Eastern Time, Dr. Paul Elliott will give an audiovisual presentation on the state of the PCA in the evening service at Reformation Bible Church in Darlington, Maryland.

To view the service live online, click the "Live Streaming" link on the right side of the church homepage. For a map and directions to the church, please click here.



_______________________________________________________

What are your thoughts on what Dr. Paul Elliott said?

Last edited by chestnutmare; Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:41 PM.

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Re: The PCA: Its Compromised Past, ... [Re: Pilgrim] #53540
Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:02 AM
Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:02 AM
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Macomb Michigan
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JesusFan Offline
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Is the Presbyterian Church here in America facing what the SBC did decades earlier, when the moderates/liberals almost took over the assembly, as in the Seminaries andbook publishing wing, as they were advocating for limited inerrancy/water down Gospel message? Thankfully, the conservative wing beat them back, and regained the Seminaries!

Re: The PCA: Its Compromised Past, ... [Re: JesusFan] #53542
Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:20 AM
Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:20 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,472
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline OP

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Pilgrim  Offline OP

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There are several Presbyterian denominations in America and abroad. Most all are in a state of decline and some have apostasized totally. This thread is for the discussion of Dr. Paul M. Elliott's presentation which focused upon the PCA (Presbyterian Church of America).

For those who missed it for whatever reason, it MAY be available in the very near future on Sermon Audio at the following address: http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=42171927469.


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Re: The PCA: Its Compromised Past, ... [Re: Pilgrim] #53543
Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:09 PM
Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:09 PM
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Ga. U.S.A.
Mckinley Offline
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I'm listening and writing about this steady apostasy going on within the PCA, and I am sad to see how easy this take over is being done, and the so little men who are standing and opposing the sin that is taking place,.. as I watch him go through the agenda from Yale divinity school to the Federal Vision that this is a sad day indeed,... I will respond more as I watch and pray through this link, and I already have this link saved for a church that I visit that is PCA affiliated for evening worship, who has a new pastor to beware if they are not already being infested with this sin.

Last edited by Mckinley; Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:10 PM.

"A man may be theologically knowing and spiritually ignorant." STEPHEN CHARNOCK
Re: The PCA: Its Compromised Past, ... [Re: Pilgrim] #53544
Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:50 PM
Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:50 PM
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Masschusetts, USA
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goldenoldie Offline
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This is so, so sad.

If I didn't see these reports all over the internet, I would not have believed this.

The "By Faith" periodical of the PCA speaks volumes about the convergence of my denomination: high on "feel good" pictures and rhetotic, low on spiritual substance.

Social justice warriors are a plague on our nation. They cannot be reasoned with while they are in the ascendant; the only remedy is to remove them from office and other positions of influence using our confessional and consitutional standards, and THEN preach repentance to them.

It may be too late to save the PCA now.


In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
Re: The PCA: Its Compromised Past, ... [Re: goldenoldie] #53545
Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:59 PM
Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:59 PM
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Pilgrim Offline OP

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Pilgrim  Offline OP

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Originally Posted by goldenoldie
the only remedy is to remove them from office and other positions of influence using our confessional and consitutional standards, and THEN preach repentance to them.

It may be too late to save the PCA now.

As is most always the case, removal of heretics when a denomination/church reaches this level of apostasy is near impossible. Why? Because the false teachings were not dealt with expediently when they were first discovered and thus they became widespread. And, those who embraced these heresies had the influence and/or power by the time there was any movement to do anything about them. And thus there were either no trials or if there were, most of those charged were exonerated, e.g., as were the 3 FV heretics which Dr. Elliott mentioned by name in his presentation. What is sadly true about the PCA is that the OPC denomination is moving down the same path. Dr. Elliott wrote about the OPC in his excellent book, Christianity and Neo-Liberalism: The Spiritual Crisis in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church and Beyond.


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Re: The PCA: Its Compromised Past, ... [Re: Pilgrim] #53546
Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:03 PM
Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,917
NH
chestnutmare Offline
Annie Oakley
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It is now available on SermonAudio! Some have listened to it there.


The Chestnut Mare
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by frost.
- - - -JRR Tolkien "Lord of the Rings"
Re: The PCA: Its Compromised Past, ... [Re: Pilgrim] #53547
Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:15 PM
Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 441
Macomb Michigan
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JesusFan Offline
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That was shown to be the case when the problem of allowing practicing Homosexuals to be ordained as pastors in various Christian churches and groups so called, as the conservative formed a split off church to divide apart on that issue!

Re: The PCA: Its Compromised Past, ... [Re: Pilgrim] #53548
Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:16 PM
Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:16 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 19
AZ
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Greg Bowman Offline

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It seems that the PCA is going apostate and there is heresy in the OPC as I dealt with FV in the past. And these elders did not do there jobs that they took an oath to God to do. When they see heresy a lot of times it seems they look the other way, instead of dealing with it right away. I fully agree with Pilgrim.

Re: The PCA: Its Compromised Past, ... [Re: chestnutmare] #53549
Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:23 PM
Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:23 PM
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Posts: 119
Ga. U.S.A.
Mckinley Offline
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With all that is being exposed, from the PCA and the OPC, of which I was not aware of the critique which has been written by Dr. Elliott, I see why my elder has been independent for so many years since the church being planted in 2003,... I pray for the elders of these denominations that they will stand against this onslaught that leaven that is already taken root and given forth bad fruit. "I am not permitted to let my love be so merciful as to tolerate and endure false doctrine. When faith and doctrine are concerned and endangered, neither love nor patience are in order...when these are concerned, neither toleration nor mercy are in order, but only anger, dispute, and destruction - to be sure, only with the Word of God as our weapon."

- Martin Luther

Last edited by Mckinley; Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:26 PM.

"A man may be theologically knowing and spiritually ignorant." STEPHEN CHARNOCK
Re: The PCA: Its Compromised Past, ... [Re: Pilgrim] #53550
Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:26 PM
Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:26 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 240
NJ/PA
Anthony C. Offline
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I don't get why at a time its so critical to stand ground churches would rebel.... I've been sitting under Lane Tipton's preaching the past four weeks and during Bible study he was warning against FV and other recent forms of apostasy.... But I understand the attacks against the faith are in full force....I will listen and comment

Re: The PCA: Its Compromised Past, ... [Re: Pilgrim] #53551
Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:36 PM
Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:36 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 240
NJ/PA
Anthony C. Offline
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Here's a good primer discussion.... Im late on the scene here and I can barely make heads or tales of some of this....

https://www.puritanboard.com/threads/spiritual-crisis-in-opc.24893/

If I can get a clear picture as to where the OPC is in trouble I'm eager to take it up directly with Tipton to see where the issue lies.... I always got the sense that the denomination wants to do right by Machen.... who obviously sought to do right by God's word...


Ok, looked into this...
Shepherd and Kinnaird taught heresy that does not stand in the opc.... They got off the hook for sure, but their errors do not stand.... As far as Theistic Evolution is concerned, Machen himself took a soft stand there... As far as the opc is concerned, nothing new under the sun, thankfully.... PCA I hear is in trouble however

Last edited by AJ Castellitto; Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:06 PM.
Re: The PCA: Its Compromised Past, ... [Re: Anthony C.] #53552
Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:15 PM
Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,917
NH
chestnutmare Offline
Annie Oakley
chestnutmare  Offline
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NH
AJ, perhaps you might read Elliot's book for yourself. It is one thing to read Hanko's review of Elliot's book and another to just read it for yourself. I have not read the whole book but what I have read, is very well researched and documented. I was not happy with what he wrote for it hit too close to home for me. I would however rather hear the truth of where some of my friends and professors stood than wonder what it was that just didn't seem right.


The Chestnut Mare
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by frost.
- - - -JRR Tolkien "Lord of the Rings"
Re: The PCA: Its Compromised Past, ... [Re: Anthony C.] #53553
Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:24 PM
Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,472
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline OP

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Pilgrim  Offline OP

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NH, USA
1. First read Paul Elliott's book I mentioned above. It is packed with documentation, e.g., complaints filed, GA rulings, etc., etc.

2. Secondly, I was a student at WTS in Philadelphia in the late 70s and early 80s which was in the thick of the Shepherd controversy. So, I know first hand what was being taught and how little was done to stop the heresy that Shepherd was teaching. I also sat under the teaching of John Frame, who taught the heresy of "multi-perspectivalism", (mentioned in HH's critique of Elliot's book on the Puritan Board). And I also had Vern Poythress for a couple of classes, including hermeneutics. Although I do disagree with Elliott's charges against Van Til, which read like classic Clarkianism of which I strongly reject as error, the vast majority of what Elliott writes in his book are spot on. In fact, the main defense 'attorney' for John Kinnaird was a former pastor of the church I attended while at the seminary.

Over the years that have passed since I was there, a number of 'stalwarts' that taught there have gone 'over the cliff' and now teach serious heresy. They also had Peter Enns teaching at WTS who is guilty of teaching gross heresy in regard to Scripture. And the list goes on and on concerning the decline of WTS. Add to that you have the silliness and errors that have come out of WTS Escondido, Calif.

On a personal note, I do grieve over what has happened to WTS and the OPC. But my grief isn't enough to quash my opposition and my willingness to expose the errors that continue to be taught at those institutions and preached/taught by the students who have embraced them there as elders in the church. I am eternally grateful that God spared me from being sucked into these heresies and prepared me before I attended there by the Spirit's grace of instilling a fervent hunger to know God's inspired Word. The 'sword of the Spirit' was my defense. And my constant prayer is that it will always be the case and that I will be found faithful on that last day.


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Re: The PCA: Its Compromised Past, ... [Re: chestnutmare] #53554
Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:01 PM
Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:01 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 240
NJ/PA
Anthony C. Offline
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Originally Posted by chestnutmare
AJ, perhaps you might read Elliot's book for yourself. It is one thing to read Hanko's review of Elliot's book and another to just read it for yourself. I have not read the whole book but what I have read, is very well researched and documented. I was not happy with what he wrote for it hit too close to home for me. I would however rather hear the truth of where some of my friends and professors stood than wonder what it was that just didn't seem right.


I would like to read it....

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