Donations for the month of March


We have received a total of "0" in donations towards our goal of $175.


Don't want to use PayPal? Go HERE


Forum Search
Member Spotlight
Pilgrim
Pilgrim
NH, USA
Posts: 14,450
Joined: April 2001
Forum Statistics
Forums30
Topics7,781
Posts54,881
Members974
Most Online732
Jan 15th, 2023
Top Posters
Pilgrim 14,447
Tom 4,516
chestnutmare 3,320
J_Edwards 2,615
John_C 1,865
Wes 1,856
RJ_ 1,583
MarieP 1,579
gotribe 1,060
Top Posters(30 Days)
Tom 4
John_C 1
Recent Posts
1 Cor. 6:9-11
by Pilgrim - Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:02 PM
Change in NRSVue text note on 1 John 5:7
by Pilgrim - Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:07 AM
Is the church in crisis
by John_C - Wed Mar 27, 2024 10:52 AM
Jordan Peterson ordered to take sensitivity training
by Tom - Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:00 PM
Should Creeds be read in Church?
by Pilgrim - Mon Mar 25, 2024 6:30 AM
Do Christians have Dual Personalities: Peace & Wretchedness?
by DiscipleEddie - Sat Mar 23, 2024 1:15 PM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#53527 Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:45 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 148
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 148
I have just read an article by Desiring God with the title of the article ''Lament Like a Christian Hedonist''.. I have not done a long study of the term ''Hedonist'' or its relationship to biblical Christianity,.. I have found comments here on the Highway that have already been expounded on the ideology,.. and with that note, I wonder why this is still being a prevalent stance with John Piper's ministry despite those who have addressed it like Mr. Peters in at least 2 articles to my knowledge .. The faith seems to be daily being bombarded by those who claim to be Calvinist and Reformed in their theology but continue to leave for man centeredness and have no real likeness of those from whom this great theology has its essence. http://desiringgod.cmail20.com/t/j-l-utidjlt-ntjfkukt-t/

Last edited by Mckinley; Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:47 AM.

"A man may be theologically knowing and spiritually ignorant." STEPHEN CHARNOCK
Mckinley #53529 Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,031
Likes: 6
The Boy Wonder
Offline
The Boy Wonder
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,031
Likes: 6
For a Christian, there should be no greater joy than in being a "living sacrifice," which is our reasonable service to God - and thus "hedonistic" (?) because of the happiness it brings to the inner man.

But the whole man-centered, "pleasure-seeking" thing (even if that pleasure is "good") is really bothersome to me. We should be seeking His pleasure rather than our own.


Mckinley #53532 Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:27 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Piper's proposition of "Christian Hedonism" is summed up by him as, "God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him." (cf. Christian Hedonism).

I find this most obnoxious and contrary to the basic doctrine of God found in Scripture. It is CHRIST, the incarnate Son of God in whom God is most glorified. God is most glorified in Himself.
Quote
Hebrews 1:1-3 (ASV) God, having of old time spoken unto the fathers in the prophets by divers portions and in divers manners, hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in [his] Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds; who being the effulgence of his glory (emphasis mine), and the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had made purification of sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
To even suggest that man, particularly fallen man brings the most glory to God when we are 'most satisfied in Him' is ridiculous. God further glorifies Himself in His works of creation, The heavens bring forth the glory of God (Ps 19:1) and in His redemption of sinners, (2Cor 4:6,15).


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Mckinley #53535 Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:38 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 148
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 148
''effulgence''.. a word I don't think I have run across before,.. but I do thank you for it!...


"A man may be theologically knowing and spiritually ignorant." STEPHEN CHARNOCK
Mckinley #53536 Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Originally Posted by Mckinley
''effulgence''.. a word I don't think I have run across before,.. but I do thank you for it!...
Effulgence is brightness taken to the extreme. You may be dazzled by it, stunned by it, or even overcome by it. Usually used to refer to the sun or some other mega-star, effulgence can also be used more figuratively.


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Pilgrim #53537 Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483
Addict
Offline
Addict
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483
Thought that God was most glorified in the Cross of Christ, and in the person Of Jesus?

JesusFan #53541 Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:12 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Originally Posted by JesusFan
Thought that God was most glorified in the Cross of Christ, and in the person Of Jesus?
scratch1 Isn't that what I said HERE?


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Pilgrim #53562 Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483
Addict
Offline
Addict
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483
God needs no other creatures to bring Him glory, does he?

JesusFan #53566 Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:42 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Originally Posted by JesusFan
God needs no other creatures to bring Him glory, does he?
Is this a question you are asking because you are unsure of the answer? scratchchin


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Pilgrim #53570 Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483
Addict
Offline
Addict
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483
Not sure!

JesusFan #53571 Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Originally Posted by JesusFan
Not sure!
Why not reason this out based upon the biblical doctrine of God? Is God all glorious in and of Himself? Was God less glorious before He created anything? Can any creature increase or decrease God's glory?


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Pilgrim #53574 Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483
Addict
Offline
Addict
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483
God did not have to do anything in order to be glorious, since he is God, he is fully sufficient within Himself.... Unlike some who would seem to hold to somehow God "needed" to create us?

Robin #53585 Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,516
Likes: 13
Tom Online Content
Needs to get a Life
Online Content
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,516
Likes: 13
Robin
I think your words sum up why I disagree with Christian Hedonism.
Yet quite a while ago, when I was trying to get to the bottom of the issue. I e-mailed a Reformed theologian whom I have grown to respect over the years concerning the issue. I would rather not say who that theologian is. However, he basically says that he is tired of the whole issue, because what people are accusing Piper of is a misunderstanding at best. I tried to find out more, but I did not get a response.

Tom

Tom #53586 Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Originally Posted by Tom
Robin
I e-mailed a Reformed theologian whom I have grown to respect over the years concerning the issue. I would rather not say who that theologian is. However, he basically says that he is tired of the whole issue, because what people are accusing Piper of is a misunderstanding at best. I tried to find out more, but I did not get a response.
1. You didn't say what your "Reformed theologian" thinks people are misunderstanding.
2. You didn't say what your "Reformed theologian" bases his defense of Piper's proposition is?
3. Just the title "Christian HEDONISM" should raise flags.
4. Save your "respect" for someone else. grin


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Pilgrim #53604 Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483
Addict
Offline
Addict
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483
Maybe the Theologian requested not to be named though?

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 84 guests, and 17 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
PaulWatkins, His Unworthy Son, Nahum, TheSojourner, Larry
974 Registered Users
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Popular Topics(Views)
1,506,457 Gospel truth