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Israel #54527
Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:55 PM
Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,563
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline OP
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Tom  Offline OP
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Is it just me, am I seeing a lot of extreme views on boards concerning Israel as a nation?
From the Dispensational side, they are super happy about Trump and his exceptence of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
Others (not sure what eschatological position they hold to) seem almost anti-Israel. Saying Israel (calling it Zionism) are most of the problem we are seeing in the world today. They say that it is not Muslims that are the problem; it is Israel.
I decided not to participate in any of the discussions; because I am definitely not a Dispensationalist; but I was a little shocked at the ant-Israel sentiment.
Not even sure what to think of the issue; especially coming from so called Calvinist boards, sigh...
Tom

Re: Israel [Re: Tom] #54528
Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:10 PM
Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:10 PM
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Pilgrim Offline

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Pilgrim  Offline

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As I have written and said many times throughout the years, what Paul said of Israel which coincides with your consternation of the views expressed concerning Israel particularly those who claim to be "Reformed", he Paul wrote:

Quote
Romans 9:6-8 (ASV) "But [it is] not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel: neither, because they are Abraham's seed, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed."


If you are unable to grasp my point, let present it another way; a simple way by substituting the word Reformed for the word Israel in the quote above:

Quote
"But [it is] not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Reformed, that claim to be Reformed: neither, because they are Abraham's seed, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed.


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Re: Israel [Re: Tom] #54529
Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:05 PM
Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:05 PM
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Tom Offline OP
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Pilgrim
I am well aware of those things concerning Israel.
I just was a little taken back by the extremes concerning Israel that I am seeing.
Perhaps the reason I did not see anyone with a middle ground, was because the true Reformed Christians thought it would be fruitless to say something?
I wanted to say something, but for some reason, I thought better of it.

Tom

Re: Israel [Re: Tom] #54530
Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:13 PM
Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:13 PM
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Pilgrim Offline

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The point was, Tom, that what Paul wrote about Israel is analogous to those today who claim to be "Reformed". Just because someone says they are XXXX, doesn't mean they are really XXXX. And, as I have counseled you many times in the past... you need to be wise in knowing when to "play" and when to "fold". There are times, many times in fact, when it isn't prudent to enter into a conversation/debate/war with someone for various reasons. It doesn't make any difference what either extreme, aka: unbiblical views they pontificate. Israel has rejected the true God and His Christ for over 2000 years. Even after God brought the holocaust upon them, they still didn't repent and seek after God and be reconciled to Him through repentance and faith in the LORD Jesus Christ. There is nothing more impenetrable than the heart of a fallen man. They are under God's just judgment and are not "His people". However, they are reasonably trustworthy allies to the U.S. and worth supporting and defending.


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Re: Israel [Re: Pilgrim] #54531
Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:09 AM
Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:09 AM
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Posts: 3,563
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline OP
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Tom  Offline OP
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Pilgrim

That was helpful. It is not always wise to enter into those kinds of conversations. Which is why I chose not to enter in; yet it left me wondering about a few things.
I agree with you that Israel has indeed rejected God and Christ for more than 2000 years…
However, my point has more to do with when you said:
Quote
However, they are reasonably trustworthy allies to the U.S. and worth supporting and defending.

That is how I am seeing this whole situation. Whether or not President Trump should have recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel I am less sure on. It sure has riled a lot of people; which I am certain he knew would happen ahead of time.

Re: Israel [Re: Tom] #54532
Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:21 AM
Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:21 AM
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Pilgrim Offline

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Pilgrim  Offline

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yep good question. I'm not sure if moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem on the grounds that it is recognized as the legitimate capital of Israel was a good move? However, it did reveal just how 'friendly' Turkey, Egypt and a few other countries really were. Facades have been removed by this action which is surely a good thing, if for no other reason that it does show the animosity that is inherent among the vast majority of Muslims toward non-Muslims. And the move did strengthen the bond between the U.S. and Israel who has always been pro democracy. This is a political matter for the most part although it is based upon a fallacious idea that the Jews are still God's "chosen people" and that the promises given to ancient Israel are still valid and applicable today. Of course, being an Amillennialist I reject any such view(s) and believe that God no longer views the nation of Israel as His people even though He still calls individual Jews to genuine repentance and faith in the LORD Christ (Hosea 1:2-11). For a further defense of the view I hold, see also, Paul's Theology of Future Israel.


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