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#54880 Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:22 PM
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Tom Offline OP
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I have a question related to Dispensationalism.
I have heard it said that many Dispensationalists actually believe that salvation is different for Jews than it is for Gentiles.
I am trying to find out if this is a truthful statement and if so, who are the main teachers who believe it?

Tom

Tom #54881 Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom
I have heard it said that many Dispensationalists actually believe that salvation is different for Jews than it is for Gentiles.
Yes, there have been and continue to be some who believe that the Jews are saved in a different manner than are Gentiles. Such individuals/groups often were called 'hyper-Dispensationalists', 'Acts 28' or 'Acts 29' Dispensationalists. They so bifurate the Bible that they believe that parts of the New Testament only applies to Jews or Gentiles. IF I remember rightly, I think? one of the major proponents of this extreme view was Ethelbert William Bullinger (E.W. Bullinger) [cf. E.W. Bullinger].

Modified or Progressive Dispensationalism, e.g., as taught by John MacArthur are not of this group, albeit they have their own problems/errors, strongly reject the view that Jews are saved differently than Gentiles. How widespread the ultra/hyper-Dispensational view(s) are today is anyone's guess. I suspect it is greatly under represented among the church at large.


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Tom #54882 Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:54 AM
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I heard that too back in the early 80s when I first became aware of biblical theology. I think Pilgrim gives a good synopsis between them and the newer current dispensationalists. Maybe why the former is not seen around much anymore is the influence of popular radio preachers such as McGee, MacArthur, Jeremiah, Swindoll. I'm I forgetting anyone.


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Tom #54884 Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom
I have a question related to Dispensationalism.
I have heard it said that many Dispensationalists actually believe that salvation is different for Jews than it is for Gentiles.
I am trying to find out if this is a truthful statement and if so, who are the main teachers who believe it?

Tom
Wait a second, if that is not a main component of what they believe, how do those who don't believe that view the salvation of Jews?

Last edited by Anthony C.; Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:32 PM.
Anthony C. #54885 Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:20 PM
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"Progressive" Dispensationalists, e.g., John MacArthur believe that justification is by grace through faith in Christ Alone for everyone. But they still believe that God has a special place in His 'heart' for the Jews, etc. etc.


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Tom #54888 Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:45 PM
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When I saw this post, I thought of this article re: Pope Francis position statement "the Jews still hold special covenantal relation with God".
https://richardedmondson.net/2014/01/13/the-jewish-covenant-with-god-according-to-pope-francis-2/
The article and commentary get to the crux of the controversy, which is in this case, what is meant by "Old Covenant" and "their covenant". After prominent Catholics, such as E. Michael Jones refuted the document as veering from Catholic historical teaching regarding the Jews, the catechism was changed, but its intention remains ambiguous to critics. The document was never considered 'ex-cathedra' but still, the Catholic Church, has been confusing and evolving its stance on this teaching as well as ecumenism in all senses.

Meanwhile, in Evangelical churches, false teachers such as Hagee claim the Jews are saved without Christ. And mainline dispensationalist churches have another heretical understanding of physical Israel and the Jews.

And politically speaking, and blurring the lines, the American government together with the Christian right (including Evangelicals and Catholics) have been advocating policy based upon heretical "Judeo-Christian eschatology" ..the presumption of a biblical mandate, even an end-times "third temple" mandate. Mainstream news outlets have been covering these stories for some time.

Recently, the Vatican rightly condemned what it referred to as "apocalyptic" fear politics, and many non-dispensationalist Christians are waking up to how rampant the situation is.

Trump as annointed "Cyrus", "appointed by God", "King of the World", "the Trump Prophecies", etc. Liberty University is creating a feature film based on "the Trump Prophecies" (against the wishes and petition of its film/media students).

Against the din and silence of all of the above, a very tiny few souls are actively vocalizing a different concern.

Historic understanding of the gospel, covenants and the significance of 70 AD and "it is finished" vs. TBN and The Jim Baker and their many friends freak show.
-- "Trump Prophecy" - Sid Roth and audience
Trump Coin- Jerusalem Temple

Kaylin #54889 Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:13 AM
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For quite a long period of time in the past, the Roman State Church adhered to a quasi? Amillennial position. Rome is and always has been a religious chameleon depending upon what location they occupied and what pope was enthroned as the "Vicar of Christ". Accommodation to local customs and beliefs regardless of how pagan they are is Roman policy/practice. However, Rome's theological position has been relatively consistent, with a few exceptions where liberal popes have pronounced some really bizarre things. The 'out' has aways been the expected phrase, "But none of that was give EX-CATHEDRA", which is their way of saying, you can take whatever was said with a grain of salt because it isn't officially binding. As an aside, it is interesting to read/hear professing Catholics have so little interest in their church and often disagree and even ridicule it for some of its doctrines. And yet, at least in the U.S. lamestream media, when it mentions Christianity, the majority of the time the reference is to the Roman State Church as if IT is the recognized representative. igiveup

Most Dispensationalists, regardless of what type they profess to be are not governed by Scripture but by daily headline news, which they claim is the fulfillment of some biblical prophecy which is proof that Armageddon is right around the corner and the 1000 year millennium will soon be here... i.e., if you are a pre-Trib Dispie. rolleyes2


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Pilgrim #54890 Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:55 PM
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Pilgrim
Shhhhhh, a Dispi might see your post lol .
I have always wondered why those who do not believe in the Amii position, do not use the fact that the Roman Catholic Church believes in the Amil position against us A-mils.
I know some Dispi's that do not even believe in the Apostles Creed, because in their words it is a "Roman Catholic document." They even question the fact that the Protestant Reformation was effected by the writings of Roman Catholic Augustine. They say Augustine was a heretic.

Tom


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