The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Apologetics

What verses would I refer to when those who's response to my explaining and expounding upon scripture or doctrine is "that's your (or if I'm citing, "someone's") opinion" and proceed to recite John 14:26 or verses similar?

I guess what I'm asking is essentially: What is the best or most proper response or apologetic to those who believe in personal revelation from God or the Spirit in discerning or interpreting the Scriptures, referencing John 14:26?

1. Let's look at the text and see what it actually means.

2. The audience to which Jesus was speaking was the gathering of His closest disciples whom He had commissioned to preach the gospel throughout the world. It is to them that He is specifically given this promise of the sending of the Holy Spirit for two reasons, in this context.
- He will teach them "all things"
- He will bring to remembrance all that Jesus had spoken to them while on earth.

The two "alls" are inseparable. There is no justification to separate the two so that on the one hand, a recollection of what was spoken would be given and on the other, everything which Jesus did not speak would be revealed directly by the Spirit sans means. The meaning here is that the words which Jesus spoke in their presence throughout His earthly ministry would not be a) remembered completely, and b) comprehended in their fullness without the Spirit's enlightenment (cf. Jh 2:22; 12:16).

3. What you are faced with with such individuals is a denial of the closing of the Canon and an embracing of extra-biblical revelation which is a lengthy subject. You might want to look through the many articles on The Highway [url=http://the-highway.com/]website[/i] in the following two sections:
- The Charismatic Movement
- Calvinism and the Reformed Faith > Sola Scriptura

4. Lastly, R.C. Sproul, Sr. once said that when he met someone who said, "The Spirit told me ... such and such," and thus you (Sproul) must acknowledge that it is true, he would reply that the Spirit told him (Sproul) that what this person was espousing was horse pucky and to reject and ignore it."

Okay, now for further query: how do I explain to a person (of this belief) the necessity of discernment of Spirit and mind? How do I help them understand that God doesn't speak that way to people anymore, and that it's his own feelings/desires? Also, I have a question for myself. How does the Spirit speak to us today? What is considered "being led by the Spirit"?

Read this: Does God Speak Today Apart from the Bible? by Dr. R. Fowler White

Okay, I've read it.

Now, I would ask if maybe someone could give me an example of putting it all into an understandable summary for a response to a non-cessationist? I work better off of examples rather than completely formulating my own, at least for now.

Try posting your question here: ExCharisma.

My argument, along with some others, is that IF God's revelation has not ceased:
1. Since any 'communication' comes directly from God, then it MUST OF NECESSITY be on equal authority as Scripture it being inspired, inerrant and infallible.

2. If that is therefore true, then it is an addition to God's written Word which is in direct violation of Rev 22:18,19.

FYI, in the Charismatic Movement section there are a number of articles which deal with this subject and the particular venues which such alleged divine communication are said to come, e.g., tongues and prophecy.

I agree with what Pilgrim said here. However, I remember a response way back when I was struggling with this issue, that I received when I said to a Charismatic basically what Pilgrim said.
The following comes from memory, so it might not be the persons exact words.
"In answering this, let me answer it by asking a question, that in effect answers what you said.
Was every real prophecy that was said in biblical times, recorded in Scripture?
If you answer no (which I am sure you will) then you have in essence answered one of the main reasons why I am not a Cessationist. To be sure, anything said must not contradict God's Word and although it is true the canon of Scripture is closed, it should become obvious that these gifts are still in operation and the gifts have not ceased."

It has been quite a while, sinse I actually studied this subject with any depth; so I actually can not remember what I came up with concerning what this man said.
What Pilgrim said just brought back this man's answer to me.
I thought perhaps, I need a little reminder in the hope I remember. Perhaps, it might even become a fruitful discussion?

Tom

Thanks to you both for your input! I will be sure to peruse the ExCharisma section.

As to you, Tom, are you hoping for discussion in this thread?

Also, to Pilgrim, I would think this subject falls under this category also due to the nature of my question. Bear in mind I'm not creating division here... only attempting to clarify so as not to go outside the group guidelines. I want to be sure to post appropriately.

I appreciate you both!

Am I not making my question clear, though? I was wanting some scripture references to pull from against someone who says that the spirit has spoken to them... in every kind of case. I think audibly or emotionally would be the two most common.

Do not give in to the tendency to look at the Bible as an encyclopedia. Answering such people is typically difficult due to the fact that doctrine is established from "The Analogy of Faith", i.e., comparing Scripture with Scripture, from Genesis to Revelation. Rarely will you find the proverbial 'silver bullet' that will slay the error. And, the truth is, "A man with a doctrine is no match for a man with an experience!"

What you are looking for is contained in several areas of study, e.g., the divine inspiration of the Bible, the formation and close of the canon, the purpose of the ecstatic gifts and how they fit into the formation of the Church, the authority of ALL of divine revelation, etc., etc. Typically, those who promote a non-cessationist position are not given to objective truth but rather emotionalism so trying to offer a rational argument from the Bible is often an exercise in futility. If you haven't learned already, hopefully you will... You need to make a judgment whether to engage someone on a particular topic or to shake the dust of your sandals and walk away. Even the Lord Christ, who had all wisdom, told His disciples "Let them alone: they are blind guides. And if the blind guide the blind, both shall fall into a pit."

ReformedDisciple
The reason I post that was it brought back memories from when I was struggling with this issue.
When I used that arguement against a Charismatic, I thought it might be helpful to show the kind of response you can expect.
I only wish I could remember how to answer them.
Tom

Thanks guys! You both are a great help! I appreciate the advice and warning, Pilgrim. So I have a new question, as an aside: Doesn't it say in the bible somewhere in the NT, not in the gospels; after a long list of sins types, it calls them idolatry, one being drunkenness? I could've sworn it ended like "drunkenness, which is idolatry."

Any clue?

I don't know of such a verse. :sad:

The closet verse that came to mine was Col 3:5 which speaks of idolatry, but drunkenness isn't included. And, vice versa, there is Gal 5:19-21.

Yeah... I've looked at those. I need to re-watch the video I heard it mentioned in. "Powerful talk on overcoming addiction" by Jeff Durbin. He makes the connection that Alcoholism (formerly known as drunkenness) is idolatry, and therefore not a "disease" but instead a form of sin and a worship problem. Essentially 'misguided worship'.

I had someone ask me to show them where it was at in scripture calling drunkenness idolatry..

Calling drunkenness, idolatry, is a bit of a stretch, IMO. The Bible doesn't associate drunkenness with idolatry and I find no biblical warrant to do so. To use Mr. Durbin's hermeneutical gymnastics one could make the case that an excess of or strong affection or even attraction for anything could be called "idolatry" because you aren't 100% given over to loving God and Him alone with all your heart, mind, soul and strength. The biblical teaching is that idolatry is substituting a man-made god, whether physical, intellectual and/or emotional, for the true living God. And in doing so, exalting whatever it may be to the status which belongs to God. Paul wrote that sinful man exchanges the truth for a lie and worships a false god of their own making.