Donations for the month of March


We have received a total of "0" in donations towards our goal of $175.


Don't want to use PayPal? Go HERE


Forum Search
Member Spotlight
Pilgrim
Pilgrim
NH, USA
Posts: 14,450
Joined: April 2001
Forum Statistics
Forums30
Topics7,781
Posts54,881
Members974
Most Online732
Jan 15th, 2023
Top Posters
Pilgrim 14,447
Tom 4,516
chestnutmare 3,320
J_Edwards 2,615
John_C 1,865
Wes 1,856
RJ_ 1,583
MarieP 1,579
gotribe 1,060
Top Posters(30 Days)
Tom 4
John_C 1
Recent Posts
1 Cor. 6:9-11
by Pilgrim - Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:02 PM
Change in NRSVue text note on 1 John 5:7
by Pilgrim - Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:07 AM
Is the church in crisis
by John_C - Wed Mar 27, 2024 10:52 AM
Jordan Peterson ordered to take sensitivity training
by Tom - Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:00 PM
Should Creeds be read in Church?
by Pilgrim - Mon Mar 25, 2024 6:30 AM
Do Christians have Dual Personalities: Peace & Wretchedness?
by DiscipleEddie - Sat Mar 23, 2024 1:15 PM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,865
John_C Offline OP
Permanent Resident
OP Offline
Permanent Resident
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,865
Please verify. I heard someone who I respect say that John Piper has a view that final salvation is earned; however, i hear from others who I have respect say that Piper is not meaning what those who say he does.

So, what is it? Is Piper off the rails on this, or just trying to be too clever in some of his talks or writings where some misunderstand what he is trying to say?

It seems the only ones I see charging Piper with this are the Westminster West theologians, especially Scott Clark.


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Well, I'm not of Westminster West... rather Westminster East. grin

From what I've read, a charge against Piper for intermixing grace with works is justified. His book Future Grace is the basis of most of the issue of Sola Fide. Piper has been his worst enemy and not those who find fault with a number of his novel views on different subjects. One of his most odious errors, apart from synergistic soteriology is his "Christian Hedonism", which he claims is what Jonathan Edwards wrote in his Works. Now, I do not even begin to claim to be some kind of Edwardian expert, but I have read quite extensively of Edwards' writings, and the notion that Edwards wrote any such view is totally absurd.

That's my [Linked Image]


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,516
Likes: 13
Tom Offline
Needs to get a Life
Offline
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,516
Likes: 13
Quote
i hear from others who I have respect say that Piper is not meaning what those who say he does.

Out of curiosity, if Piper does not mean what his accusers say he means. What does he mean?

The way I look at this issue, is even if Piper doesn't mean what his accusers say he does; Piper has himself to blame. He uses language that can't help but get him into trouble. This isn't the first time he has done it either.

By the way, there was a time I was a big fan of Pipers. One of the first times I saw a video of him preaching, was to a group of teenagers. What was really impressive is that when the camera scanned the audience, every teenager looked fully engaged in what he was saying. That was years ago now and although I can't remember what his message was, I was also very engaged in his sermon.
My pastor also said that Piper was one of the first Calvinist preachers he ever heard and in recent years he has become very disappointed in him.

Tom

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450
Likes: 57
Aside from the issue of the content of Piper's sermons/lectures, there is the matter of his deliverance, which I think is what engages the majority of listeners. IMO, it is emotionalism that is the main reason for the attraction by many (most?). Call it 'marketing strategy' if you like which like so much advertising that is out there results in people remembering the catchy tune, or antics, etc. but the product itself isn't remembered.


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483
Addict
Offline
Addict
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483
Is his view similar in any fashion to those of NT Wright, who seems to view eternal like as something that we would be meriting based upon how well we worked out our own salvation, based upon our good works and growth in Christ?


Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 84 guests, and 17 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
PaulWatkins, His Unworthy Son, Nahum, TheSojourner, Larry
974 Registered Users
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Popular Topics(Views)
1,506,457 Gospel truth