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#5830 Sun Sep 21, 2003 5:06 AM
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From the London Times yesterday:<br><br>The Presbyterian Church (USA) has agreed to fund a congregation of Messianic Jews in Philadelphia. Local Jewish community leaders criticised the decision to support the Congregation Avodat Yisrael . Burt Siegel , executive director of the Jewish Community Relations Council of Greater Philadelphia , said: " We are not happy about Jews being the target for conversion."<br>Services at the Presbyterian church, which will begin on Rosh Hashanah (Jewish New Year ), are modelled on Reform Judaism.

#5831 Sun Sep 21, 2003 8:46 AM
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Sounds like deja vu all over again:<br>The JCR Council::<br> <blockquote>“We are not happy about Jews being the target for conversion.”</blockquote><br><br>2000 years earlier: Acts 4:18 “And they (the council) called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.”<br><br>For the Philly story: Philly.Com<br><br>Dave<br><br>

#5832 Sun Sep 21, 2003 9:39 AM
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So where is there biblical basis for worship to be modeled after Reformed Judaism? I have no problem preaching Christ to any people group but it seems to me this congregation is trying to stay Jewish in their worship practices while being Christian.

#5833 Sun Sep 21, 2003 4:26 PM
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I have to wonder, though, what is the reason for retaining a "Jewish style" service? Indeed, what is the justification for the whole of Messianic Judaism, which by and large maintains rabbinical customs?


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
#5834 Sun Sep 21, 2003 5:27 PM
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Howard (and Kyle),<br><br>The issue of Messianic Judaism being overly rabbinic is a very important one. In fact, the connection between Messianic and Rabbinic Judaism has been made and rebuked by an excellent author from Israel. He's written a book called "Judaism is not Jewish: A Friendly Critique of the Messianic Movement" by Baruch Maoz. If you're interested, the isbn is: 1857927877. I ordered a copy through http://www.discerningreader.com They give great discounts! I am intimately informed about the messianc community, having been baptized through a messianic congregation in NYC in 1986. I still have regular contact with a healthy congregation in northern NJ that actually emphasizes grace! But, like Maoz, would have to say that the vast majority of the messianic movement is prone to legalism (you know, the whole Galatian thing!), and sufferes from a major bout of insecurity about their Jewishness. Unfortunately, they've accepted rabbinic authority when they should rest upon Christ alone through His word and work alone. But hey, that's been the church's problem for 200 years; why should they be any different! Anyway, I hope this tome is helpful. I know I've enjoyed it!<br><br>Be Blessed in Christ, Papa John

#5835 Sun Sep 21, 2003 7:43 PM
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John,<br><br>Thanks for the book recommendation; I'll keep it in mind. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile[/img]


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
DaveVan3 #5836 Sun Sep 21, 2003 8:21 PM
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Is Jews for Jesus as rabbinical as these others?


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
MarieP #5837 Sun Sep 21, 2003 9:36 PM
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sbc_and_reformed,
In reply to:
[color:"blue"]Is Jews for Jesus as rabbinical as these others?

My wife is a Jewish Christian originally from Philadelphia, so we have had quite a bit of exposure to various "congregations" and also missions to Jews over the years. In her early years as a Christian, Susan attended a congregation in Philly--not the one in the article--which was heavily "rabbinic", with way too much authority granted to its founder. This group, like others we have heard of, was a synergism of Jewish ceremonial ritual, including post-Biblical traditions, with emphasis upon additional faith in Y'shua to enable one to be a "completed Jew". She left after being warned that if she started visiting churches or using the name "Jesus" she was in danger of being "assimilated" as a Gentile. The Lord used a reading of Galatians to show her that such a group is in fact led by modern-day "Judaizers". Their refusal to sever ties with the unbelieving community, which they pragmatically defend as "enabling them to reach more Jews, instead of driving them away", is rooted in a refusal to be associated with the offense of the cross (sorry, that is a forbidden word: I think it is something like "the wooden device formerly used for execution").

We have not seen Jews for Jesus following the same pattern. For one thing, they consider themselves a missions organization, rather than a denomination. They are committed to connecting interested parties, with whom they speak, to local churches. Of the leaders we have known and occasionally worked with over the years, there has been a range of theological maturity and orthodoxy. A dear friend who is currently starting a new work in Germany (of all places!), while in the States, belongs to a decidedly Reformed (in the Christian sense, lest there be any mistake) church of our denomination, and is clearly not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Whatever faults and errors the group as a whole is prone to, however, I would have to say that the rabbinical approach is not one of them.



In Christ,
Paul S
Paul_S #5838 Sun Sep 21, 2003 11:36 PM
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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"](sorry, that is a forbidden word: I think it is something like "the wooden device formerly used for execution").</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Sure it's not "torture stake"? [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/tongue.gif" alt="tongue" title="tongue[/img]


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.

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