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#8750 - Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:31 AM Christ- fully God and fully man  
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"God the Son who laid aside His divinity in order that He might rescue us. (Philippians 2:6-7)"

COPYRIGHT © IN TOUCH MINISTRIES. IN TOUCH Magazine. Used with
permission. In Touch Ministries, P. O. Box 7900, Atlanta, GA 30357. All rights
reserved. PLEASE Visit http://www.intouch.org

Is Charles Stanley saying that Christ ceased to be God? This does not sound correct. He was fully human and fully God at the same time. What did He lay aside? I would think saying He laid aside His crown (for my soul, for my soul...) would be better. How did He not consider equality with God to grasped? Is it more of a manifested equality than an actual intrinsic equality?


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
#8751 - Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:38 AM Re: Christ- fully God and fully man [Re: MarieP]  

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Marie, have a look at 1 Timothy 3:16 (kjv) and see how Paul concludes this query.

#8752 - Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:31 AM Re: Christ- fully God and fully man [Re: MarieP]  

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Dear Marie:

I am glad you pointed this out sister.

Perhaps this is just an unfortunate choice of words, I hope so, but I find the old confessions were very careful with anything that even seemed to deny the continuous dual God-man character of Christ, and they were so because the scriptures are so clear on this and it touches upon the nature of Christ, the Glory of Salvation, the Wisdom and Love of God revealed.

To my thinking He is both in His essence, at all times, not either/or, though at times He may forgoe the revelation or outward manifestion of His divinity for sovereign and wise purposes. I find nothing in Philipians 2;6-7 to support, even remotely, such a statement as Christ laying aside His divinity. Rather, I see His divinity taking upon it the nature of a man. Two entirely different things in my view. See the Athenasian creed, especially the second part.

And by the way, no need to apologize for getting carried away, it is precious [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/yep.gif" alt="yep" title="yep[/img].

In Him,

Gerry

#8753 - Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:14 AM Re: Christ- fully God and fully man [Re: MarieP]  
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Marie,

I just ran across that section in Bavinck's article yesterady. Here's good explanation of the Phil. passage.
Bavinck writes,

"Christ was God, and is God, and will forever remain God. He was not the Father, nor the Spirit, but the Son, the own, only-begotten, beloved Son of the Father. And it was not the Divine being, neither the Father nor the Spirit, but the person of the Son who became man in the fulness of time. And when He became man and as man went about on earth, even when He agonized in Gethsemane and hung on the cross, He remained Godís own Son in whom the Father was well pleased (had all His pleasure). It is true. of course, as the apostle says, that Christ, being in the form of God, did not.think it robbery to be equal with God, yet made Himself of no reputation and emptied Himself (Phil. 2:6-7). But it is a mistake to take this to mean, as some do, that Christ, in His incarnation, in the state of humiliation, completely or partly divested Himself of His Divinity, laid aside His Divine attributes, and thereupon in the state of exaltation gradually assumed them again. For how could this be, since God cannot deny Himself (2 Tim. 2:13), and as the Immutable One in Himself far transcends all becoming and change? No, even when He became what He was not, He remained what He was, the Only-Begotten of the Father. But it is true that the Apostle says that in this sense Christ made Himself of no reputation: being in the form of God, He assumed the form of a man and a servant. One can express it humanly and simply in this way: before His incarnation Christ was equal with the Father not alone in essence and attributes, but He had also the form of God. He looked like God, He was the brightness of His glory, and the expressed image of His person. Had anyone been able to see Him, he would immediately have recognized God. But this changed at His incarnation. Then He took on the form of a human being, the form of a servant. Whoever looked at Him now could no longer recognize in Him the Only-Begotten Son of the Father, except by the eye of faith. He had laid aside His Divine form and brightness. He hid His Divine nature behind the form of a servant. On earth He was and He looked like one of us.

The incarnation therefore also implies in the second place that He who remained what He was also became what He was not. He became this at a point in time, at a particular moment in history, at that hour when the Holy Spirit came over Mary and the power of the Most High overshadowed her (Luke 1:35). But all the same this incarnation was prepared for during the centuries. "

The rest of this wonderful article on the divnity and humanity of Christ should be read by all.
The Divine and Human Nature of Christ

in Christ,
Carlos


"Let all that mind...the peace and comfort of their own souls, wholly apply themselves to the study of Jesus Christ, and him crucified"(Flavel)
#8754 - Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:18 AM Re: Christ- fully God and fully man  
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16 By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness:<br> He who was revealed in the flesh,<br> Was vindicated in the Spirit,<br> Seen by angels,<br> Proclaimed among the nations,<br> Believed on in the world,<br> Taken up in glory.<br><br>Thanks! I've read that verse before, but it had been awhile.


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
#8755 - Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:20 AM Re: Christ- fully God and fully man [Re: carlos]  
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Thanks, Carlos! I will have to read that article. I just finished up Steven J. Lawson's book I mentioned on the Books forum. He says that the most complete picture we have of the glory of God is in the cross of Christ. Also, he talks about the fact it was Christ that Isaiah saw in his vision (John 12).

Last edited by sbc_and_reformed; Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:28 AM.

True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
#8756 - Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:36 AM Re: Christ- fully God and fully man [Re: MarieP]  
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I e-mailed them and ask them to clarify their statement. I know Charles and this does not sound like him (I hope he was attempting to communicate something different and that this is a very poor choice of words...), nor is it what I know he was taught.

Intouch needs to be touched!


Reformed and Always Reforming,
#8757 - Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:50 AM Re: Christ- fully God and fully man [Re: J_Edwards]  
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After I posted my comments re: Charles Stanley, I became convicted that since I could not cite my disagreement with his doctrine, it was wrong of me to post my comments. For anyone who had already read my post, I apologize.

Last edited by gotribe; Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:35 AM.

Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine
Hiraeth
#8758 - Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:18 AM Re: Christ- fully God and fully man [Re: MarieP]  
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In reply to:
[color:"blue"]
"God the Son who laid aside His divinity in order that He might rescue us. (Philippians 2:6-7)"



What translation (er paraphrase) is this supposed to be?



Soli Deo Gloria
John Schultz
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#8759 - Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:28 PM Re: Christ- fully God and fully man [Re: J_Edwards]  
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Thanks, Joe.<br><br>I was thinking about doing the same, but I hadn't had time yet. Pleaase tell us what you find out!


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
#8760 - Fri Dec 12, 2003 7:20 AM Re: Christ- fully God and fully man [Re: MarieP]  
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Ok, I will admit it, I am slow and generally can't even find my socks at home. Where on the intouch sight did you read this statement by Stanley? I peaked but just did not now where to look.

#8761 - Fri Dec 12, 2003 4:50 PM Re: Christ- fully God and fully man [Re: rcwilly2002]  
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MarieP Offline
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It was sent as a daily devotional. One of the members of an email discussion list I belong to sent it.<br><br>


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
#8762 - Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:48 PM Re: Christ- fully God and fully man [Re: J_Edwards]  
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Joe,

Any clarification from Intouch in regards to Phil 2?



in Christ,
Carlos


"Let all that mind...the peace and comfort of their own souls, wholly apply themselves to the study of Jesus Christ, and him crucified"(Flavel)

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