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Submission #8950
Sun Dec 14, 2003 11:55 PM
Sun Dec 14, 2003 11:55 PM
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The_Saint Offline OP
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How far does submission of wives unto their husbands go? If a woman was married to a wicked man, who was a muslim while she was a Christian, and they lived in Iran let us say, how far would she have to submit? If this man beat her daily would she still be commanded to respect and obey, or is she released from her obligations due to his wickedness?<br><br>I was told by a middle party, that their pastor said God could and would still use this to His glory. Would anyone disagree? I would think living under such persecution would be an amazing tool of growth and witness. I would think that God would bless that woman greatly for her suffering. But, am I wrong?


"There is nothing that keeps wicked men at any one moment out of hell, but the mere pleasure of God." - Jonathan Edwards
Re: Submission [Re: The_Saint] #8951
Tue Dec 16, 2003 10:52 AM
Tue Dec 16, 2003 10:52 AM
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1 Cor. 7:10-11And unto the married I command, [yet] not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from [her] husband: <br> <br> But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to [her] husband: and let not the husband put away [his] wife. <br><br>It seems to me that God has let a woman have a sort of "way out" in the kinds of extreme situations as you describe. But if she is in Iran.. I am not sure she would be allowed to divorce him anyway. I'm no expert on Iran though. <br><br>If she didn't divorce him, then she would still be required to submit to her husband. There are two different issues I think. The way the husband treats her, and her duty before God. Does she want to divorce because of the beatings? or because she doesn't want to submit to him anymore? <br><br>1Pe 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy [are ye]: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled; <br> <br> 1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: <br> <br> 1Pe 3:16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. <br> <br> 1Pe 3:17 For [it is] better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. <br><br>Anyway.. interesting discussion [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img] <br><br>Michele

Re: Submission [Re: The_Saint] #8952
Tue Dec 16, 2003 11:12 AM
Tue Dec 16, 2003 11:12 AM
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The_Saint,<br><br>There is nothing, at least that I can find, in Scripture that requires a woman or a man, to allow a spouse to physically abuse them. Submission does not include physical abuse. As MHeath pointed to the passage in 1Cor 7, which reads:<blockquote>1 Corinthians 7:10-11 (ASV) But unto the married I give charge, [yea] not I, but the Lord, That the wife depart not from her husband (but should she depart, let her remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband); and that the husband leave not his wife.</blockquote>it seems to me that Paul is making a sharp distinction between "leaving" and "divorcing". Since I hold that biblical divorce is allowed for the sin of adultery and of desertion only, physical abuse would not constitute a valid reason for a woman living in the situation you described (or living anywhere else, for that matter) to divorce her husband. However, I do believe that a woman living in that situation would be justified in fleeing to safety. She would still be under the authority of her husband, but that authority does not include physically abusing his wife and/or children. The same would apply should the wife be the abuser.<br><br>We are to obey our parents, spouse, government, employer, etc..... "as unto the Lord". This submission and respect does NOT allow or demand that we obey those in authority when their demands if obeyed would require us to sin. Allowing anyone to brutalize us is hardly being a good steward of our body, which is the temple of the Holy Spirit.<br><br>In His Grace,


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Re: Submission [Re: MHeath] #8953
Tue Dec 16, 2003 1:47 PM
Tue Dec 16, 2003 1:47 PM
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The_Saint Offline OP
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My line of thought was that if we were commanded to obey Caesar, why would an evil husband be different? The Caesars were not exactly a good steward of our bodies when they destroyed them.


"There is nothing that keeps wicked men at any one moment out of hell, but the mere pleasure of God." - Jonathan Edwards
Re: Submission [Re: The_Saint] #8954
Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:41 PM
Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:41 PM
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MHeath Offline
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I don't see any real similiarities between a marriage relationship and where one lives. A marriage is a covenant relationship, and where we live is not. I don't see anything wrong if persecution comes to an area of the world, if it is possible, to leave. It's not breaking a covenant. Plus, those who have died for the cause of Christ at the hands of their leaders, were dying because they would not sin against God by rejecting Him. As said before, God does seem to give an "out" for a woman in an extreme circumstance. I hope I'm not prying, but is there any particular reason that you ask this question?<br><br>To me, there is a big difference between Ceasar and our husbands. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile[/img]<br>Michele

Re: Submission [Re: MHeath] #8955
Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:04 PM
Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:04 PM
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The_Saint Offline OP
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I did specify marriage to an unbeliever though. Does not Paul say we cannot divorce them?


"There is nothing that keeps wicked men at any one moment out of hell, but the mere pleasure of God." - Jonathan Edwards

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