The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Bauble Invasion

Overnight my pc has been decked with baubles and other pagan symbols [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/scream.gif" alt="scream" title="scream[/img]<br><br>Only happened on the Highway though [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh[/img]<br><br>Methinks the spirit of xmass is well and truly up and running [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/puke.gif" alt="puke" title="puke[/img]<br><br>Roll on January 2nd , when normal service will be resummed [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh[/img]<br><br> Jeremiah 10:1-4 kjv [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/readit.gif" alt="readit" title="readit[/img]

Gee,Howard. It made me smile this morning!

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"] Overnight my pc has been decked with baubles and other pagan symbols…. Jeremiah 10:1-4 kjv </font><hr></blockquote><p> Howard I would ADVISE you to re-read those verses! Your misinterpretation of verses is coming through again. The verses are talking about making idols to worship. Who here is worshiping the garland? Is it tempting you to worship it—no, I don’t believe so!<br><br>Verses 2 through 4 of Jeremiah 10 are part of a larger context. That larger context is verses 1 through 16. We may go further, but I believe this will suffice. In these verses Jeremiah proclaims the Lord as the only God; "There is none like You, O LORD; You are great, and great is Your name in might. Who would not fear You, O King of the nations? Indeed it is Your due!…. But the LORD is the true God; He is the living God and the everlasting King….It is He who made the earth by His power, Who established the world by His wisdom, etc.” (vss. 6, 7, 10, 12).<br><br>But, the gods that pagans worship are nothing compared to the Lord; "The gods that did not make the heavens and the earth will perish from the earth and from under the heavens" (vs 11). They are mere images made by men and women. "Every man is stupid, devoid of knowledge; Every goldsmith is put to shame by his idols; For his molten images are deceitful, And there is no breath in them. They are worthless, a work of mockery; In the time of their punishment they will perish" (vs 14-15). <br><br>Gold is not the only substance used to make idols. Verses 8 and 9 speak of worthless wooden idols on which workmen place hammered silver and gold, and rich apparel. When we consider that these verses condemn idolatry, we can understand what Jeremiah meant when he said "the customs of the peoples are delusion" (vs 3). No wonder he tells us not to "learn the way of the nations" (vs 2). <br><br>Turning to translations other than the KJV also helps our understanding. Where the KJV reads, "one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe" (verse 3), the NASB says, "Because it is wood cut from the forest, The work of the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool." The tool referred to in the passage is not a woodsman's tool, but that of a wood carver. <br><br>Jeremiah is not condemning Christmas trees. He is condemning idolatry. The trees in Jeremiah 10 are cut down to carve them into worthless idols that will later be decorated with gold and silver. Jeremiah says nothing about Christmas trees. Your unbiblical eisogesis is hilarious!<br><br>The Highway is not as those accused by Tertullian of falling into the Saturnalian rut by adorning their houses with lamps and with wreathes of laurel as Christmas decorations (Tertullian, On Idolatry, XV—again false worship). Though some like Calvin and some of the Puritans objected to a Christmas Tree, it is all in what one believes the items to represent. Part and parcel of the Reformation is Reformed and Always Reforming—look at my signature block. <br><br>I think your views come from what you either have misread or have been mis-taught! May I ask you what the Christmas tree means to me? What does it and decorations mean to the staff? What does the Christmas Tree mean to many of the members here? Do you know or are you just spouting off more Bible verses out of context?<br><br>The German religious reformer Martin Luther (1483-1546) is often credited with starting the Christmas tree custom. It is likely that the custom dates back to at least around 1550, since the first of several "Tannenbaum" ballads was circulating in print at that time. <br><br>The use of evergreens as a Christmas symbol of “everlasting life” goes back much further than even 1550s, but still with a Germanic connection. St. Boniface is said to have introduced the use of evergreens in connection with his efforts to Christianize the Germanic tribes in the 8th century. He dedicated the fir tree (Tannenbaum) to the Christ Child, displacing the pagan oak tree of Odin. <br><br>When a light is on a Christmas Tree, I think of Christ as the light of the world. When a proper ornament is placed on a tree, I think of His many gifts He has blessed us with. When I see tinsel on a tree it reminds me of His shimmering glory and holiness. When I see a star on top of a tree it reminds me of the star of Bethlehem and my Savior’s birth. The Christmas Tree is all what you make it. We as Christians need to steal it back from pagans of this century and reform its use for today. No, we are not going to worship such, but, it can, and to many of us does, represent many of God’s glorious promises and attributes. While I am sure that some may in some form worship the Christmas Tree, and more probable the gifts under it, it does not mean that “all” do! You can either literally see a demon in every tree this season, or reform your thinking scripturally!<br><br>There is no need at continuing to look at everything through Pagan eyes instead of looking at it in (1) the truth of Scripture, and (2) in our heritage of Reformed and Always Reforming.<br><br>PS: I once felt the way you did, but have since reformed. Me thinks it is still part of the stage you are going through.

I meant not that the baubles on my pc or any of the post refered to Jeremiah [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/stupidme.gif" alt="stupidme" title="stupidme[/img]<br><br>Christmass trees, lights, garlands, baubles etc,etc, all stem from pagan roots ...........<br><br>They are vain customs of men .<br><br>Maybe I'll think like you about this one day Joe [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/ponder.gif" alt="ponder" title="ponder[/img] <br><br>I doubt it though . I dont expect we'll ever agree about Easter and Lent either . <br><br>

It made me smile too . [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/sad.gif" alt="sad" title="sad[/img] isnt it . <br><br><br> [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh[/img]

It is obvious that you disagree with Joe's exegesis. <br>I am curious, as to what you find wrong with it [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/scratch.gif" alt="scratch" title="scratch[/img].<br><br>Tom

When the light on the xmass tree is seen as "Christ as the light of the world" one must wonder why the tree ,complete with its lights, is discarded after a couple of weeks.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]When the light on the xmass tree is seen as "Christ as the light of the world" one must wonder why the tree ,complete with its lights, is discarded after a couple of weeks. </font><hr></blockquote><p> Howard, <br><br>Read the Psalms and then look outside, then you will discover the glory and beauty of God in creation. Would you rather the trees and all represent Satan? <br><br>BTW my Lord's name is not "xx". His name is Christ. DO NOT use this abbreviation. This is NOT a suggestion. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/bash.gif" alt="bash" title="bash[/img]

Enjoy the season Joe . I mean it [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile[/img] Some of us dont enjoy it. Lets leave it at that [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/shrug.gif" alt="shrug" title="shrug[/img]

Dear Howard,<br><br>With all this bah humbug clap I read in your posts I'm just wondering... Are you related to Ebenezer Scrooge?<br><br><br>Wes [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]

Scrooge ? He hardly lived up to his name sake did he ? [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/ponder.gif" alt="ponder" title="ponder[/img]<br><br>Dickens wrote the first known Xmass card ,did he not ? [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh[/img]

Howard,<br><br>I do hope you'll take seriously Joe's comments here.<br><br><br>Wes

How you doubt such a thing is beyond belief[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/shrug.gif" alt="shrug" title="shrug[/img]

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]BTW my Lord's name is not "xx". His name is Christ. DO NOT use this abbreviation. This is NOT a suggestion.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>In fairness, "X-mas" was an abbreviation first used by Christians. The X is the Greek letter chi, which is the first letter in xpistos.

Thanks for that Kyle. I know not Greek.<br><br>We use" xmass" in England as an abbreviation for the Roman Catholic practce<br>of "christmas"btw [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]

Howard,<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]I meant not that the baubles on my pc or any of the post refered to Jeremiah Christmass trees, lights, garlands, baubles etc,etc, all stem from pagan roots ........... They are vain customs of men .<br><br>Maybe I'll think like you about this one day Joe I doubt it though . I dont expect we'll ever agree about Easter and Lent either . </font><hr></blockquote><p>You can do what you want with the season we call Christmas but please don't be so negative regarding how others choose to celebate. It may be a pagan holiday for some but for those of us who focus on the actual story of Christmas (the birth of Christ) which is from the Gospels of Matthew and Luke where an angel appeared to shepherds by the town of Bethlehem and told them of Jesus' birth. The Magi or wise men who came bearing gifts, followed a special star in the sky which led them to the baby Jesus. Christians choose to remember this glorious moment yearly by a special celebration in prayer, commemorative decorations, placing stars and lights on a tree, and indulging in the spirit of giving. <br><br>There is no Biblical warrant nor precept for remembrance of the day of Christ's birth, nor does there have to be. Indeed in my humble opinion it is noble that we should have a special celebration each year to honor God's gift of Christ's birth, and have special joy and celebration in it's significance. I find it very odd that anyone could find inherent fault with this. The theory that we must have clear Biblical command or precedent before having religious commemorations or celebrations is ludicrous. Do we have to have special Biblical command or precedent in order to pray on the 2nd day of April? The 3rd day of May? The 4th day of June? Do we need Biblical command or precedent before we worship God on any day? This theory is totally self serving. God says very clearly that we are not to judge our fellow Christians in relationship to respect of a Holy day (Rom. 14:6), so how much clearer can it get? <br><br>I say Christmas, to every faithful Christian, should be more than simply celebrating His birth some 2000 years ago, it should also be a time in remembrance and renewing, to keep our hearts and minds in Christ, and to exhort one another in continued prayerful expectation, as we celebrate the Blessed hope of His promised return! <br><br><br>Wes

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Thanks for that Kyle. I know not Greek.<br><br>We use" xmass" in England as an abbreviation for the Roman Catholic practce<br>of "christmas"btw</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Who is that we that you refer to Mark? Oh and btw you didn't answer Tom's question with regard to Joe's exegesis. Do you mind giving us your exegesis?<br><br><center>That is no light part of my penance,'' pursued the Ghost. ``I am here to-night to warn you, that you have yet a chance and hope of escaping my fate. A chance and hope of my procuring, Mark.'' <br><br>``You will be haunted,'' resumed the Ghost, ``by Three Spirits.'' </center><br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]I say Christmas, to every faithful Christian, should be more than simply celebrating His birth some 2000 years ago, it should also be a time in remembrance and renewing, to keep our hearts and minds in Christ, and to exhort one another in continued prayerful expectation, as we celebrate the Blessed hope of His promised return!</font><hr></blockquote><p>[color:blue]Well spoken, brother!!</font color=blue> <br><br>In His Grace,

Mark was NOT speaking GREEK, but he is using slang! He used a "XX" and not just an "X".<br><br>In ALL fairness, and I should more say, in ALL respect to the Godhead, we do NOT use slang when referring to their names. We do not refer to God as the man upstairs. We do not say hey man I need to talk with you. We have Malcolm X and we have the XXX of pornography, but let us not incorrectly use the English XX for Christ. NO where in the Greek Scripture is Christ ever referred to as "XX." As I said it was NOT a suggestion!

[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/clapping.gif" alt="clapping" title="clapping[/img]<br><br>Amen, Wes! Very well said!<br><br>Mark, what do you believe about Holy Week and Resurrection Sunday?

I never used "XX" Joe . One "X" and a double "SS" [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]

Never even heard of them Marie [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/shrug.gif" alt="shrug" title="shrug[/img]<br><br><br>Sounds like more Popery to me. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh[/img]

Mark,<br><br>What do you do on Good Friday?

Howard, you are correct, I stand corrected and apologize.... You used only 1-x......... Good 'ol memory...<br><br>But, you are still missing the 'bigger' picture: (1) you were not using Greek, but English, the chi (X) in Greek is spelled "Ch" in English and not "X" (2) you were using slang, (3) you thought the rest of your post was more important then spelling out the name of Christ, (4) Christmas has enough problems already without Christians removing the name of Christ from it (5) you aren't Catholic are you? It is rather simple: Do you respect the names of God or not? If you do don't short-cut them. Don't use slang just because the Catholics do. The NAMES of God mean something very special and specific that we are to cherish, et. al. And for the last time--DO NOT use them here!

No, Joe, he used a single X. I have never seen Mark write "xxmas." Rather, he has consistently written "xmass" (two S's) to emphasize what he considers the popish trappings of the holiday. The X is not mere slang. As I pointed out, it is the first letter in Christ's name in Greek, xpristos, just like the ancient symble XP also stood for Christ. Anyone who does use it with the intent of taking the Lord's name out is only fooling himself. It's not the same as "the man upstairs," and it is not comparable either to "Malcolm X" or "XXX."

Mark,<br><br>Consider that your incessantly berating the celebration of Christmas is extremely offensive to your brothers and sisters here who RIGHTLY celebrate the holiday to God's glory. Remember:<br><br>"One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God" (Rom. 14:5,6).

Howard<br><br>I take it by your answer, that you either can't refute Joe's exegesis, or you just are not comfortable with your understanding of the passage.<br><br>Tom

This was already answered prior to your post!!! MARK was not using the terms as you stated, as he said, "Thanks for that Kyle. I know not Greek." He further stated, "We use" xmass" in England as an abbreviation for the Roman Catholic practice of "christmas"btw." His intent of using the term "X" was not based on his knowledge of Greek, but rather his acceptance of Catholic theology. Thus, your argument for his defense has no basis.

I used Jeremiah in my first post and in my second post , I used a [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/stupidme.gif" alt="stupidme" title="stupidme[/img] smilie.<br><br>I was thinking of William MacLeans treatment of the text in the opening post of the "christmas" thread thats all .

This is the point where we differ Joe.<br><br>The christ of christmas is not (IMHO) , The Lord Jesus Christ my Savior. It is a roman catholic christ who is no christ at all. Christmas is just like any other Popish mass . <br><br>I believe christmas to be Roman Catholic/Arminian practise , like millions of Christians throughout the world do, past and present . Future too. Cromwell abolished it btw.

Same as I do on any other Friday Marie.<br><br>I do try to avoid popery.

You are spot-on Kyle. I wont discuss this season anymore [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile[/img]

Howard <br><br>With that kind of reasoning, one could say they don't believe in the Trinity, because RC's believe in it.<br><br>Tom

WHY is this popery?

Why do you say that the Christ of Christmas is not the true Christ?<br><br>Don't get me wrong, Christmas has become secularized in many ways. But please don't condemn those Christians who see Christmas as a time to think upon Immanuel, God with us, the sinless Savior sent to take away the sins of many, the radiance of God's glory, the long-awaited Messiah who took on human flesh and dwelt among us.

Howard<br><br>[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/scratch.gif" alt="scratch" title="scratch[/img] and how does that answer my question?<br><br>Tom

Marie,<br><br>Here are a few snippits from "The Dictionary of the Presbyterian and Reformed Tradition in America" which might help you.<br><br>" One futher example of Reformed Spirituality and application of the regulative principle was sabbath observance. Presbyterians and Reformed have been rigourous in observing the fourth commandment ..........<br><br> The practise of sabbath observance also meant abolition of the Church calander. Whereas roman catholics instituted a series of holy days throughout the Church year modeled on the life of Christ or general Christian teaching. the Reformed objected that after the ressurection of Christ the only day that Scripture commanded to be a different or sanctified day was the Lords Day, when believers celebrated Christs triumph over sin and death in the resurrection. Thus, Presbyterians and Reformed in their desire to follow Scripture carefully have generally marked the Christian life by observing the weekly sabbath and by refusing to require the human practice of setting appart the holy days of the Church year.<br><br> .......... Hence, the word Reformed itself has always been shorthand for the phrase that the Church must "Always be reforming itself according to the Word of God." If a practice inheritted from roman catholicism could not be justified according to biblical teaching, then it had to be abandoned."<br><br><br>Christmas , Easter, Lent, Good Friday, Ash Wednesday , Whit Sunday etc,etc ,etc are all Popery Marie. <br>There is NOTHING reformed about them. <br><br>Always reforming or always deforming [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/shrug.gif" alt="shrug" title="shrug[/img]

Howard:<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]I meant not that the baubles on my pc or any of the post refered to Jeremiah <br><br>Christmass trees, lights, garlands, baubles etc,etc, all stem from pagan roots ...........<br><br>They are vain customs of men .</font><hr></blockquote><p>If these "vain customs of men" bother you so much, can you explain why some of the "music" (I use that term loosely) you have told us you listen to, which does not honor God, either in content or origin, is not like wise a "vain custom of men"?<br><br>In Him,<br><br>Gerry<br>

I dont make music into christian doctrine Gerry. Some try to make pagan practise christian doctrine.<br><br>You'd better start a new thread about it.........................[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile[/img]

Tom , the Roman Catholic Church is a COUNTEREIT CHURCH ![img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/confused.gif" alt="confused" title="confused[/img]<br><br><br>There is nothing Christian about it . The R C trinity is NO TRINITY

Howard<br><br>Unless I am mistaken the RC Church holds to the Apostles Creed and a few other Trinitarian Creeds.<br><br>I see no evidence that the RC Church does not believe in the same Trinity that we do. They have a lot of heretical doctrines, but the Trinity is not one of them.<br><br>I have been on other Christian ( I use that term loosely) boards in the past, where people like Oneness Pentecostals attacked the Trinity and among the people who were very pro Trinity who defended the doctrine of the Trinity were Catholics.<br>I didn't see anything that these particular Catholics said about the Trinity that wouldn't have been said by people on this board.<br><br>Just because I believe that RCs are heretical in many of their beliefs, doesn’t mean that I don’t agree with them on other doctrines.<br><br>So unless you have some information about how the RC Church teaches the Trinity that I am unaware of, I believe you are mistaken.<br>I have also never seen (or heard) a Reformed Christian (other than yourself) attack or debate RCs on the subject of the Trinity and I have both listened to and read quite a few debates against RCs.<br>Remember I am not talking about soteriology or other doctrines of the faith; I am talking about the doctrine of the Trinity itself.<br><br>If I am correct about this, the question comes to mind. Would you abandon the doctrine of the Trinity, because it is (as you call it) popery?<br>

While not wanting to disagree with your dictionary I would challenge its findings that the "roman" catholics created the Church Year. In fact I would suggest to you that the church year was begun as a method of teaching the entire bible to believers. As well as focusing them on the ministry of our Lord.

I could never abandon THE Trinity Tom (the'P' in tulip)

I dislike the term 'trinity' though

But Joe, was Mark using the x with the intent of taking "Christ" out of "Christmas"?

Probably not. I think he was intent on taking Christmas out of Christ. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/evilgrin.gif" alt="" />

Mark seems to think that Christ has NOTHING at all to do with Christmas and is just an RC holiday and worthy only of condemnation.

Mark admits that his use of the English "x" (which is a different letter than the Greek "chi.") was for Christ. Moreover, the Engish "X" is not the Greek "chi": 1) Greek and English DIFFER and are not the same language (2) Mark was not using Greek or referring to it (3) Mark admits not knowing Greek or the history of the use of the Greek "chi." Thus, your defense of him on these grounds is a simple delusion of your illusion.

In addition, as I told you and Mark previously you do not live in the Middle Ages. In the past, the Greek "chi,"(which YOU attempted to defend Mark with), not the English "X," (which Mark was using without ANY prior knowledge of the Greek history) was used for Christ. Here is the history of Greek "chi" and NOT Mark's English "X":



So, unless Mark cannot read/write (in which case he does not need to post on this forum) or he is getting "sweet" with everyone on the board , YOUR defense on these grounds it is NOT even justified historically!

Pure and simple it is disrespectful and irreverent. I am sure though with individuals such as yourself and Mark defending such lame principles that you will be able to replace all the usages of Christ in your hymnal with an "X" and of course even make a new Gen-X version of the Scriptures--XXX.

This has been beat into the ground enough. May God keep both of you from blasphemy and misuse of God's Word and Name! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/igiveup.gif" alt="" />

Mark

Sorry, I didn't understand your last post. (maybe it was your British accent <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/spin.gif" alt="" />)
How does it answer what I had to say?

Christmas is JUST an RC holiday Joe . Nothing Reformed about it.<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Tom , do you believe the pope prays to the same God as we do ?

In the first place, I well know Mark's opinion of Christmas. I have not defended his opinion, but rather his usage of the "X" in place of "Christ." You attacked it as disrespectful toward our Lord, but I defended it saying that it is not disrepectful, but stems from history. It is true that the English letter X is not the Greek letter chi, but the two letters are indistinguishable in capital form, English X is derived from Greek chi, and of course it is not convenient to type Greek letters on an English keyboard. If you find it disprectful because it is an abbreviation, then I have nothing more to say except that I don't think abbreviations are inherently disrespectful.

Furthermore, the history you have provided may be true as regards illiterates signing with an X, but what I have said about the abbreviation "Xmas" is true:


Mark's knowledge of the history of this abbreviation is irrelevant, as he had absolutely no intent of blaspheming our Lord by misusing His Name, nor is the abbreviation itself historically blasphemous.

Your responses to me on this subject have been most unjust, Joe. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scold.gif" alt="" />