"Since you would know by what name I would be distinguished from others; I tell you, I would be and hope I am a Christian. As for these factious titles of Anabaptists, Independents, Presbyterians or the like, I conclude that they came neither from Jerusalem nor Antioch, but rather from Hell and Babylon, for they naturally tend to divisons"
The works of John Bunyan (Blackie and Son 1848)Vol 2 p649
While firmly committed to the Doctrines of Grace, Whitefield was a true evangelical. He once declared:
"Father Abraham, whom have you in heaven? Any Episcopalians? No! Any Presbyterians? No! Have you any Independents or Seceders? No! Have you any Methodists? No! No! No! Whom have you there? We don't know those names here! All who are here are Christians." 4
Whitefield sought to keep such issues from becoming a dividing point but he was also committed to the truths he espoused. "I embrace the Calvinistic scheme," he wrote, "not because Calvin, but because Jesus Christ has taught it to me."5 He also wrote, "I know Christ is all in all, Man is nothing; he hath a free will to go to hell, but none to go to heaven, till God worketh in him to will and do of his good pleasure." 6 article about Whitefield: http://www.baptistpage.org/Nquite/NQ_portraits/whitefield.html
I believe the Lord has spoken to this issue in the following verse, and for that reason I don't call myself a "Calvinist" prefering rather to speak of the Doctrines of Grace. Please don't mistake my meaning, I highly respect John Calvin, and his teachings, at least the vast majority of them, and I believe he was one singularly raised up by the Power of God to helf reform the church. But to my mind there has been only one Man, and He the God-Man, who was "full of grace and truth".
That verse:
1Cor 1:11 "For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"
While all this may be the case, that denominations are not the best thing in the world, they are here, and we are associated with them. And they wouldn't be here if God had not ordained that they come to pass. So we need to rest assured that God will work it all for good.
Many denominations were formed because believers who wanted to be faithful to the Bible, tried to reform the Church from within. But when they were unsuccessful, they either compromised or left to start a new denomination. Of course not all denominations were started this way, but in many cases it was.
Many denominations were formed because believers who wanted to be faithful to the Bible, tried to reform the Church from within. But when they were unsuccessful, they either compromised or left to start a new denomination.
I would have to say SOME rather than "many" denominations were formed for the reasons you give, e.g., the OPC, CRC, URC, et al. However, in more recent history, let's say over the past 150 years, it is my concerted opinion that the overwhelming majority of new denominations formed were done so by those who no longer wanted to be faithful to the historic teachings of the church but rather wanted something "new", "exciting", "super-spiritual", etc., etc... <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes2.gif" alt="" />. And, of course I would be remiss if I didn't make special mention of those denominations which came about because there was no agreement between parties in regard to what color the drapes should be in the nursery, if the minister should wear a black suit, and all those sorts of critical issues.
From my own perspective, I can probably say there need only be "4" denominations; theoretically! 1) Presbyterian, 2) Dutch Reformed, 3) Congregational, and 4) Baptist. As to the first two, due to the long-standing tradition and innate stubbornness I have been unfortunately privy to, I can't imagine the Dutch getting along with anyone; they can't even do that among themselves. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
#3, Congregationalism, as it was originally (cf. The Savoy Declaration), is nearly identical to Presbyterianism with the exception of church polity.
And of course, nearly every denomination makes claim that they are the most pure in doctrine and life. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/igiveup.gif" alt="" /> The unfortunate truth is, denominations are a necessary evil. They are ordained of God, to be sure, in the positive intent that the church be kept relatively pure in doctrine and life. Of denominations; there is no end!! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Actually, on reflection the word "some" would be a better reflection of what I was trying to say. Thanks for pointing that out. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I think I'd agree with you regarding the only needed denominations but of course I'd put the Baptist first. But there is that last shall be first thing hmmm okay leave them alone <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/ClapHands.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/thewave.gif" alt="" />
I personally like denominations. Generally, if you tell me what denomination you are, I can get a basic idea of what your doctrines are. Although, there are exceptions like my roommate, who calls himself a Reformed Methodist (if there is such a thing). If you tell me you belong to the PCA, then I can infer that you are probably Reformed, whereas, if you tell me you belong to the PCUSA, I can run away as fast as I can! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/flee.gif" alt="" />
In the midst of your sadness and woe, when you are tormented and afflicted, have comfort! God's will is done.
Although, there are exceptions like my roommate, who calls himself a Reformed Methodist (if there is such a thing).
Actually there is, (assumed) or was to be sure because the man responsible for starting the Methodist denomination was none other than George Whitefield; not John Wesley as many people have been led to believe. And Mr. Whitefield and those like him were unreservedly "Reformed" in that they held tenaciously to the doctrines of grace and preached it without reservation.
Whether or not there are any Methodist churches today who are striving to continue in that heritage I cannot say, but it would appear that there is at least one individual who you seem to have met. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
The same can be said for Congregationalism. The vast majority of Congregational churches today are Liberal, many are semi-Pelagian but a rare few are "Reformed". The "Savoy Declaration" is their confessional standard, which is nearly identical to the WCF, with a few differences, re: church polity. This is where I would probably classify myself and Jason1646 belongs to an excellent church of this heritage as well.
Actually there is, (assumed) or was to be sure because the man responsible for starting the Methodist denomination was none other than George Whitefield; not John Wesley as many people have been led to believe. And Mr. Whitefield and those like him were unreservedly "Reformed" in that they held tenaciously to the doctrines of grace and preached it without reservation.
I believe that Martyn Lloyd-Jones spoke of the Reformed Methodist churches being used by God in times of revival in Wales. I don't have the book to check, but I think that he belonged to and pastored one of these churches before going to Westminster.
Dr. Lloyd-Jones was brought up in Welsh Calvinistic Methodism (Charing Cross Chapel). He pastored at Sandfields, in Aberavon, (a Forward Movement church) before going to Westminster where he served as the assistant to Dr. G. Campbell, until Morgan's retirement and then he became pastor. IMHO one would do well to read all his books, though one may not agree with all that is in them--i.e. some of his views on the Holy Spirit.
Iain Murray is the author of the two volume biography of Dr D M Lloyd-Jones.
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