Thank you so much for your reply, as it has reinforced the testimony of Dr. MacArthur in his book "Reckless Faith."

(Fred) How exactly? I pointed out that you are totally misusing John's quote to some how libel the character of John Calvin as a Christian man. That was not John's intention at all.

Read carefully what I wrote. The passage in Matthew 7:15 was given to us to help us determine whether a Christian religious leader is/was a false prophet or a true prophet of God. What did the leader's 'fruit' say about him? That is the question.

I'm not talking about followers, I'm talking about leaders. Dr. MacArthur exhibits good fruit, but he is a Calvinist. The leader of the Calvinist doctrine was John Calvin and it's his fruit we should examine to see if there was even one example of bad fruit.

(Fred) So what you are trying to set up is that John Calvin was lost and a false prophet? Let us pretend that John Calvin never existed, how would you understand Romans 9, Ephesians 1? Are men dead in sin and with no ability to come to faith in Christ unless God work in their hearts first? Or would you deny that? Whether or not John Calvin was a Christian is irrelevant to our understanding of the Bible and what it reveals regarding the saving work of Christ and God's saving grace.

For some reason, you are under the impression that if you can demonstrate that Calvin was a false teacher, then Calvinism is wrong and we all here at this board have errant views of election, the atonement, etc. But the truth of the matter is that Calvin's character has no bearing upon what the Bible teaches regarding salvation. And besides, John Calvin was not the leader of the Calvinist doctrine that bears his name. That system of theology didn't come around until 40 years or more after his death, and it was a needed response to the heresies of the Arminian Remonstrance. Please do some reading in Church history. The Christians of the time didn't suck these beliefs out of their thumbs.


"Ah, sitting - the great leveler of men. From the mightest of pharaohs to the lowest of peasants, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" M. Burns