The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Man-Centered vs God-Centered

Brother JoshT,<br><br><br>I would also like the add the following to Wes' excellent reply. I had sent this in PM, but decided to post it any way.<br><br> <br>Since you are in enginerring or computer science( It seems you have computer science now, but engineering at some point, nevertheless...), I'm sure you have come across ‘IF then statements’, etc. Since you seem ignore simple scripture references and explanations , i'd figure i'd show you this through an equation to show you your shortcomings. Brother, let’s reason together. ( I apologize for those who don't like math or programming )<br><br>For example... a typical “if/Then Else statement is usually as such: <br> <blockquote><br> [color:blue]IF</font color=blue> ( Condition is true ) [color:blue]THEN</font color=blue><br> [color:red]A always occurs</font color=red><br> [color:blue]ELSE</font color=blue><br> [color:red]B always occurs</font color=red><br> </blockquote><br>As you would know from such equations that if the Condition is TRUE, then variable ‘A’ wil always be the RESULT. Other wise if Condition is false, then 'B' is always the result. There can be no ther way.<br>Now going to illustrate 3 examples for you:<br><br>1. Now from John 6:3637 states that " But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. <br>All that the Father gives me will come to me..” <br><blockquote> <br>From that it is easy to put in the equation above as such.<br> [color:blue] IF</font color=blue> ( ONE IS GIVEN BY THE FATHER ) [color:blue]THEN</font color=blue>,<br> [color:red] HE/SHE COMES TO CHRIST ( 6:37) </font color=red><br> [color:blue] ELSE</font color=blue>( Not given) <br> [color:red] DOES NOT COME TO CHRIST/Does not Believe. (john 6:36) </font color=red><br><br>The condition is such if one is Given by the Father, He/She WILL Come to christ ALWAYS. There is NO “MAYBE” here. IT says Will. My brother, that is “PLAIN”. It says “ALL”!<br></blockquote><br><br>2. This is even taken further by John 6:44. <br>6:44..No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.<br><blockquote><br> [color:blue]IF</font color=blue> ( NOT DRAWN by the FATHER ) [color:blue]THEN</font color=blue><br> [color:red] DOES NOT COME to CHRIST (.ie. Believe in Him (see John 6:35)) </font color=red><br> [color:blue]ELSE</font color=blue> ( drawn by the Father)<br> [color:red] RAISED UP ON THE LAST DAY</font color=red><br><br>very easy to see that 6:44 is same as 37 except said it is said in negative form. <br></blockquote><br> <br>3. Romans 8:28-30 <br> 28And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[7] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.<br><blockquote><br> [color:blue]IF</font color=blue> ( One was Foreknown( foreloved, chosen) ) [color:blue]THEN</font color=blue> <br> [color:red] He/She was PREDESTINED to Image of Christ </font color=red><br> [color:red] He/She WILL be CALLED[effectually] </font color=red><br> [color:red] He/She WILL be JUSTIFIED </font color=red><br> [color:red] He/She WILL be Glorified[ which is is being in the image of Christ] </font color=red><br> [color:blue]ELSE </font color=blue><br> [color:red] He/She was not Predesitned to Image of Christ, </font color=red><br> [color:red] He/She will not be Effectually Called </font color=red><br> [color:red] He/She will Not be Justified </font color=red><br> [color:red] He/She will not Be Glorified</font color=red><br></blockquote><br>The chain has no break; No one can break the chain without Addding/Removing from the text. It’s quite amazing to me that you , who likes to use the word “plain” and “Clear” and yet cannot see such when it really is plain an clear. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/shrug.gif" alt="shrug" title="shrug[/img]. <br><br>These texts EASILY DEMONSTRATE the effectuall calling, perseveance, etc. of the elect. Only changing the text can say other wise,. and whe this happens one is no longer doing EXEGESIS, but EISOGESIS. <br><br><br><span style="background-color:yellow;">Glory to God ALONE</span><br><blockquote><br>Ps. 135:6 “Whatever the Lord pleases, He does, in heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps.”<br>Prov. 19:21 “Many are the plans in a man’s heart, but the counsel of the Lord, it will stand.”<br>Prov. 21:1 “The kings heart is like channels of water in the hand of the Lord; he turns it wherever He wishes.<br>Is. 14:27 “For the Lord of hosts has planned, and who can frustrate it? And as for His stretched-out hand, who can turn it back?”<br>Is. 43:13 “Even from eternity I am He; and there is none who can deliver out of My hand; I act and who can reverse it?”<br></blockquote><br>Thus, In regard to Luke 7:30...<br>"When the Pharisees are said “to have rejected the counsel of God against themselves”( Lk. 7.30), we are not to undertand the decrective will, which is immutable and irrevocable(Isia 46:10, Heb 6:17), but the preceptive will, which is so often designated by the word “boules” or “counsel”(Prov 1:24, 25; Acts 20:27,; Rev 3:18). They are therfore said to have despised the counsel of God to their destruction, in asmuch as they rejected the command of God proposed by john which he called them to faith and repentance, and thus closed the way of salvation shown to them by him and to their great harm despised that grace of God(Turretin). "<br><br><br>In Christ,<br>Carlos<br>