I'm not sure where to start, I had to copy and carefully re-read this whole thread. I have yet another question though that I think will help determine things. What exactly do you say about predestination. I guess my belief about this issue and who is elect is this - that God in His omnicense somehow (I don't think I spelled that right!?) knows beforehand who will believe in Him and those are the elect. Now is this something you say or do you say God just randomly picked us out. (of course it's not really what you say, it's what the Bible says and I said before I need to read up on this issue which I have never really done before) Now in response to the issue of only the elect babies going to heaven. I haven't held this view, I've always just believed that all babies are covered under the blood of Christ because they haven't come to any age of accountability - and that only God knows when this is for each person. But the only way your view of this makes sense to me is if God somehow knows which ones would have believed in him if they had grown to the age of accountability. Well what do you say about this, because otherwise I have a long post to make in response to what I've read in this thread and it is then very confusing to me like I said. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/crazyeyes.gif" alt="" />