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ZionSeeker said:
Hi to you also!
I didn't realise that this one has been hammered out before. I understand your arguments for your side, and they sound convincing. But, are they what the Bible actually says? If the bible says we receive new life through believing, than who am i to question it? Maybe if that is what it says, we need to re-examine arguments that sound good, but don't agree?

ZS
ZionSeeker,

I will agree that IF the Bible taught that regeneration is a result of one believing, then we are obligated to embrace that teaching. However, I can't find anywhere in Scripture where that doctrine is to be found?

Take for example these two passages alone, which are clear that faith follows regeneration:

John 1:12-13 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."


I don't know how the Holy Spirit could have put it more clearly that those who believed on Christ HAD BEEN . . . "born of God". And then there is Paul's statement here:

Ephesians 2:1-9 "And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."


All are "dead" in trespasses and sins. And it was grace which "quickened" those who were dead. If God's grace is dispensed on the basis of one's antecedent faith, then it is no longer of grace but of works. But in this passage, those who were dead were "made alive" by grace unto salvation.

Would you like to take these 2 passages of Scripture and exegete them for us please?

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Acts 13:48 "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."

In His Grace,

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simul iustus et peccator

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