Hmm well I don't know what happened to my last post. maybe a prob with my computer so here goes again.

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But there are no texts which show that regeneration is a result of believing! Dead men can't believe. It's really simple; so simple that even a child can comprehend that.

What of the text which says that we have life through believing. if so, then we do not have life before we believe and are dead. Right?


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FYI, "who were born" in the Greek is genesthai, which is an aorist infinitive which denotes a past action, i.e., "who had been born".

This was a big booboo on your part <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> The word genesthai does not correspond with "who were born" but with "he gave the right TO BECOME children of God." "Who were born" is "egennathasan" and is passive aorist. aorist has an undefined aspect. "Who had been born" would be pluperfect, not aorist. It is interesting though, that they are given the right to be "genesthai" children of God when they believe, and that then they are egennathasan (born) of God. Both words are from gennao, to produce, beget, give birth to. so i guess it could read, "to those who received him he gave the right to be born children of God...who were born, not of man, etc"

Let's go on to the fall, but you must first explain why in both ephesians and colossians the quickening is linked to faith. in ephesians this quickening is said to be by grace (and grace is not said to be the result of the quickening but the cause of it), and this grace is said to come through faith.
also you have not explained what the being baptised into the death of Christ aspect to the quickening corresponds to. how can i accept your view when it cannot deal with so many scriptures?

ZS