Let's go on to the fall, but you must first explain why in both ephesians and colossians the quickening is linked to faith. in ephesians this quickening is said to be by grace (and grace is not said to be the result of the quickening but the cause of it), and this grace is said to come through faith.

(Fred) Actually, if you read the text (and I will remain in the NKJV), Paul qualifies the nature of faith, "and that, not of yourselves, it is a gift of God." In other words, we are given saving faith to believe; it is one part of the gracious gift of salvation, just as repentance is another part. Hence, a person can never believe savingly unless the Lord gives them the ability to believe, and I would add, any person who is given this ability will act upon it in order to fulfill the purposes of God in salvation.

Furthermore, Colossians 2:11-13 only affirms this reality, it does not contradict it as you suppose. First, the person is circumcised in heart - a circumcision that is made without hands. That is Paul's way of saying that a person is regenerated. Second, verse 13, Paul ties the work of regeneration with the work of Christ on the cross and his resurrection from the dead. In the same manner that Christ was raised from the dead, those who were his people for whom he died, will be raised spiritually. The reason individuals can be raised in newness of life is based upon the fact that they were identified with Christ because the father gave them to the son in eternity past (see John 6:37-45).

also you have not explained what the being baptised into the death of Christ aspect to the quickening corresponds to. how can i accept your view when it cannot deal with so many scriptures?

(Fred) On the contrary, I once held your point of view, but left it because it cannot deal adequately with so many scriptures. As I learned how to actually study the Bible and apply the appropriate hermeneutical rules to the various passages on election and so forth, my position could not hold up under any reasonable scrutiny. The right understanding of scripture forced me to abandoned my traditions and embrace what is nicknamed "Calvinism."


"Ah, sitting - the great leveler of men. From the mightest of pharaohs to the lowest of peasants, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" M. Burns