Hi, I have a brother in Devon. Never been - nearest I got that way was Bournemouth. Nice part of the world.

Anyway, I really don't think having an extended view of regeneration can help with this one.

I think some of the problems that have arisen on this thread stem from the 'instantaneous' view of regeneration taught by that otherwise great and good man, John Murray. If one takes the view, as I do, that regeneration starts with God's particular call, which leads to awakening and conviction which precede repentance and faith, which itself precedes Justification, which is the final stage of regeneration, then many of the problems aired on this thread are solved.

Even with this view, you still have to accept that new life is given at a point in time. The question is, Does this new life cause faith, or does faith cause new life? The Bible says that we have life through believing in the name of the Son of God, so I am going to go with that!