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#11973
Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:52 PM
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,612 Likes: 16
Needs to get a Life
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Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,612 Likes: 16 |
Flyboy
Sinse you have endorsed the movie, perhaps you can tell me how you can do so after reading the following information written by Steve Camp after he had watch the movie three times.
DOES THIS FILM DIFFER FROM THE BIBLICAL RECORD 2. The gospel account of our Lord’s last hours does differ significantly from the film. Some points of interest are as follows:
*When Jesus declares “I AM He” in the garden the soldiers do not fall back on to the ground; (the biblical record states that this has happened twice—why wasn’t it included?).
*Satan and Jesus are presented as being in spiritual conflict in the garden. This again is never mentioned in Scripture. What the Lord was wrestling with in the garden were not the sub-conscience whispers of Satan, but drinking “the cup” and submitting to the Father’s will. The agony of Gethsemane was between the Father and the Son—not between Satan and Christ.
*Demons plaguing Judas after his betrayal are depicted as little children. They chase Judas out into the desert where he eventually hangs himself after the little demons vanish. Their faces change throughout from an innocent child’s face to that of a hellish or goulish demon. This is very perplexing and certainly not part of the biblical account anywhere.
*”The Cup” that is presented in this film is the cup of scourging and dying. That is not the cup of Scripture that Jesus struggles “to drink” to the point of sweating great drops of blood (something that wasn't explicit in the movie). Wicked men had been scourged and crucified before. Wicked men had given their lives for a cause and received the torture appropriate as Rome determined. Wicked men deserved to die for their crimes and some did so willingly. However, the cup that only the Lord Jesus Christ could drink was the cup of the Father’s wrath that burns against our sin. Christ was our propitiation, which means to avert wrath, before the Father on behalf of the sins of the people (Heb. 2:17). Jesus was not wrestling with the reality of dying or being beaten and scourged—as physically painful and excruciating as those things were. He was wrestling with being forsaken as the wrath of the Father was being poured out on Him as our divine substitute.
*The film shows Christ before the scourging begins as praying to the Father saying, “I am ready now; my heart is ready now…” (Not exact words, my paraphrase—but nonetheless not in Scripture); giving the impression that this was what He did not want to embrace. It was a spiritual conflict that disturbed Him in that insufferable supplication before the Father.
*Mary Magdalene is presented as an adulterous woman in this film—not true according to the Scriptures.
*Mary, the mother of Jesus, is elevated beyond the biblical record. In the film she could telepathically communicate with Christ; was the nemesis of Satan during the scourging and the walk down the Via Del a Rosa; when the Lord was dying she runs up to the cross and says, “My son, I wish I could die with you.” Then kisses His feet and is shown with blood on her face referencing her as co-redemptrix with Christ and not as a sinner in need to be saved by grace. She also runs to Christ when He falls to almost assist Him in carrying His cross with Him. The apostles refer to her as “Mother” and not as Mary.
*Jesus’ words to the women of Israel is omitted on the road to Calvary as well; but strangely, St. Veronica is included (non-biblical) – the young girl who wipes the face of Christ when He has fallen down while carrying the cross. She offers Him a drink of water and gives Him a clean white towel to wipe His face with. As per Romanist tradition, His face is imprinted on the towel, which she acknowledges in the film, and was considered to be a relic of the Roman church.
*At the scourging, Satan is mulling toward the back of the crowd carrying a baby boy that has the head of a grown man which, sadly to say, looks like Mini-Me right out of Austin Powers. According to Gibson, the baby was to represent the anti-Christ--part of the unholy trinity (anti-Christ, the false prophet and the beast). It was also to give the impression Satan was taunting Jesus portraying that he could "care" for his son, but God was seemingly not caring for His Son. This again is found nowhere in Scripture and who knows the exact origin of such magical mystery tours?
*The scourging was exaggerated in the film by Gibson’s own admission. He wanted to bring the audience to the edge of despair, give some relief (the purpose of the flashbacks), and then bring them back to the edge again. (The whip used for scourging had a short wooden handle, to the end of which were attached several leather thongs. Each thong was tipped with very sharp pieces of metal or bone. The man to be scourged was tied to a post by the wrists high over his head, with his feet dangling and his body taut. Often there were two scourgets, one on either side of the victim, who took turns lashing him across the back. Muscles were lacerated, veins and arteries were torn open, and it was not uncommon for the kidneys, spleen, or other organs to be exposed and slashed. As would be expected, many men died of scourging before they could be taken out for execution. We do not know the full extent of Jesus’ wounds, but He was so weakened by them that He was not able to carry His own cross (Mark 15:21)).
*The scourging and beatings were also out of balance with the suffering on the cross and the resurrection. Out of a two hour film, only about thirteen minutes was given to the cross and less than one minute to the resurrection. This is in keeping with Romanist views of the Mass. The focus is on the scourging not on redemption. (Point of reference: Jesus is shown as coming out of the tomb with no clothing—this is not in keeping with the biblical record and definitely not the way to end this film.)
*The reason that the cross and the resurrection took second place in the totality of the film, is that this is what "The Mass" represents in Romanism--a perpetual bloody sacrifice for our sins. The emphasis of the movie is therefore in keeping with the practice of Catholicism rather than with biblical Christianity. The Scriptures clearly teach that Christ is a "once for all sacrifice" for our sins--complete lacking nothing (Hebrews 9:12ff). Christ is the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world and through His sacrifice there is a "sabbath rest" for the people of God from all our dead works (Hebrews 4:9). All our righteousness--our religious practices, ceremonies, feast days, laws and traditions, etc. are nothing but filthly rags to our holy God (Isaiah 64:6).
*Pilate in this film is depicted as a benevolent governor of the Praetorian court; almost to the point where you feel compassion for his judicial and political dilemma on what to do with Christ. Again, this is pure fantasy. In fact, historically, Caesar had sent two edicts to Pilate commanding him to stop his bloodlust of more crucifixions or the same would happen to him. This was a wicked mad-man and he weighed no conscionable objections about pleasing the crowd. He was concerned only for his own preservation—not the Lord’s well being.
*The fourteen Stations of the Cross were clearly presented throughout the film; but yet veiled enough that most evangelical Christians would not have noticed them if not previously familiar with them. In fact, in most cases, Romanist theology was subtle rather than overt. But make no mistake about it: this is the gospel according to Rome and not according to the Scriptures.
*The real suffering of the atoning work of Christ was not shown in this film. The real work of atonement and agony began once He was placed on the cross. This is where every sin, ever committed, by every one, that would ever believe, was imputed or credited to Him. The guilt and penalty of our sin was also placed on Him. But the most excruciating torment that we can never fully understand in this life was that the eternal wrath of a holy God that you and I deserve in an everlasting hell as the just punishment for our sin, was compressed into time and poured out in unmitigated fury and gall with unrelenting force by God. It was this suffering that the Lord went through to redeem His people from their sins that was the great weight of torment and affliction—-not the physical lacerations, but spiritual separation. Out of the last twelve hours of our Lord’s life before He died on the cross, six of those twelve hours was spent on the cross (from 9am-3pm). God’s righteousness, justice and holiness had to be satisfied so that we could be redeemed. Christ became our divine substitute. This, again, was the cup no one could drink except Him. Why? It took a faultless life lived; an unblemished Lamb sacrificed, and a perfect High Priest to satisfy God. All three of those things are contained in Jesus Christ the Righteous—and God was satisfied.
*There was no divine substitutionary sacrifice described in this film. This movie by Mr. Gibson’s own words was his penitence for his own sins. In a very real way, this movie is what Mr. Gibson would consider to be his out of purgatory early card. This is the religion of human achievement—works righteousness—rather than the faith of divine accomplishment.
*The Roman soldiers at the cross did not acknowledge, “surely this man was the Son of God.” Why leave such an important declaration of Christ’s deity out of script?
*In the movie, the temple veil was not torn when Christ declared “It is finished!” In fact, He didn’t declare it is finished in this film, but it is accomplished. This has a different meaning altogether than the biblical phrase, but again is more consistent with Romanism than with true Christianity. There was no showing that the sacrificial system of the old covenant was virtually fulfilled and thus nullified at this moment. This would have been an affront to the Mass and what it represents.
*As my dear friend, James White has said, “Relics, relics, and more relics (straight out of Emmerich). Stations of the Cross, "St. Veronica," the whole nine yards.
*Lastly, many key phrases were left out that are in the biblical record. They are too numerous here to mention and list, but a thorough reading of the Scriptures in the following texts will reveal them to you: Matthew 26-28; Mark 14-16; Luke 22-24; and John 13-21.
Tom
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Entire Thread
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The Passion
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gnarley
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Sat Feb 28, 2004 2:51 AM
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Re: The Passion
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MarieP
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Sat Feb 28, 2004 2:56 AM
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Re: The Passion
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Pilgrim
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Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:05 PM
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What Has Mel Gibson Said?
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Tom
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Sat Mar 06, 2004 5:52 AM
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Sat Feb 28, 2004 3:29 PM
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Sat Feb 28, 2004 4:47 PM
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Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:16 PM
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Re: The Passion
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Anonymous
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Sun Feb 29, 2004 3:59 AM
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Re: The Passion
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CovenantInBlood
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Sun Feb 29, 2004 5:00 AM
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Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:20 PM
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Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:45 PM
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Sun Feb 29, 2004 1:16 PM
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Mon Mar 01, 2004 3:33 AM
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Mon Mar 01, 2004 3:37 AM
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Mon Mar 01, 2004 3:49 AM
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Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:42 PM
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Re: Philippians 1:15-18
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Sat Feb 28, 2004 9:40 PM
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ReformedThinker
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Sat Feb 28, 2004 11:41 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Feb 29, 2004 1:48 AM
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DaveVan3
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Sat Feb 28, 2004 7:49 PM
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fredman
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Sat Feb 28, 2004 9:22 PM
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Anonymous
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Sat Feb 28, 2004 9:56 PM
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Re: The Passion
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MarieP
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Sun Feb 29, 2004 1:00 AM
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Re: The Passion
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Anonymous
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Sun Feb 29, 2004 1:18 AM
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Re: The Passion
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Tom
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Sun Feb 29, 2004 2:33 AM
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fredman
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Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:20 PM
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Re: The Passion
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Pilgrim
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Mon Mar 01, 2004 3:00 PM
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fredman
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Mon Mar 01, 2004 3:34 PM
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Pilgrim
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Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:12 PM
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Anonymous
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Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:20 PM
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fredman
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Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:43 PM
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Re: The Passion
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ReformedThinker
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Tue Mar 02, 2004 4:16 PM
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Anonymous
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Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:31 PM
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fredman
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Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:18 PM
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Anonymous
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Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:06 PM
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fredman
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Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:07 PM
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Pilgrim
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Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:55 PM
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Re: The Passion
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gnarley
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Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:29 PM
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Pilgrim
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Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:20 PM
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fredman
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Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:25 PM
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Pilgrim
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Wed Mar 10, 2004 7:53 PM
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Tom
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Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:25 AM
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Anonymous
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Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:15 AM
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Re: The Passion
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gnarley
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Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:28 AM
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MarieP
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Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:37 AM
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Re: The Passion
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Pilgrim
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Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:25 AM
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Mon Mar 01, 2004 3:35 AM
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Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:48 PM
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Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:01 PM
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Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:03 PM
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Sun Feb 29, 2004 3:11 AM
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Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:37 PM
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RefDoc
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Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:12 AM
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Anonymous
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Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:05 AM
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Anonymous
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Sun Mar 21, 2004 12:23 AM
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Anonymous
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Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:12 AM
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Re: The Passion
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Tom
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Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:26 AM
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Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:53 AM
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Pilgrim
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Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:54 PM
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Re: The Passion
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Anonymous
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Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:42 PM
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Pilgrim
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Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:21 PM
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Re: The Passion
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Anonymous
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Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:59 PM
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Re: The Passion
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Tom
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Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:52 PM
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Re: The Passion
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Anonymous
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Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:11 PM
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Tom
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Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:49 PM
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Anonymous
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Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:51 PM
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Re: The Passion
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Anonymous
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Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:16 PM
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Re: The Passion
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Anonymous
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Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:29 PM
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Re: The Passion
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Tom
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Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:47 PM
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Anonymous
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Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:15 PM
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Re: The Passion
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MarieP
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Wed Mar 24, 2004 8:20 PM
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Pilgrim
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Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:51 PM
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Anonymous
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Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:56 AM
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Re: The Passion
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Anonymous
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Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:04 AM
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janean
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Sun Mar 28, 2004 10:15 PM
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Re: The Passion
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CovenantInBlood
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Sun Mar 28, 2004 10:20 PM
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Re: The Passion
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Tom
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Mon Mar 29, 2004 2:45 AM
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Re: The Passion
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Pilgrim
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Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:33 PM
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Re: The Passion
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Anonymous
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Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:16 PM
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Re: The Passion
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Pilgrim
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Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:46 PM
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Re: The Passion
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Anonymous
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Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:57 AM
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Re: The Passion
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Pilgrim
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Tue Mar 23, 2004 1:20 PM
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Re: The Passion
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Anonymous
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Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:00 PM
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Re: The Passion
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Anonymous
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Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:06 AM
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Re: The Passion
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gnarley
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Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:28 AM
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Re: The Passion
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vmhodges
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Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:18 PM
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Re: The Passion
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vmhodges
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Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:48 PM
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Re: The Passion
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J_Edwards
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Thu Apr 01, 2004 11:39 PM
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Re: The Passion
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MarieP
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Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:57 AM
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Re: The Passion
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J_Edwards
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Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:06 AM
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Re: The Passion
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MarieP
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Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:25 AM
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Re: The Passion
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J_Edwards
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Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:32 AM
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Re: The Passion
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MarieP
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Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:43 AM
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Re: The Passion
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J_Edwards
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Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:48 AM
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Re: The Passion
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J_Edwards
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Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:38 AM
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Re: The Passion
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MarieP
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Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:45 AM
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Re: The Passion
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Tom
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Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:40 AM
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Re: The Passion
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J_Edwards
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Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:34 AM
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"The Word of the Cross is Enough"
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MarieP
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Fri Apr 02, 2004 9:19 PM
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Re: The Passion
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Anonymous
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Fri Apr 02, 2004 9:26 PM
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Re: The Passion
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Anonymous
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Tue Apr 06, 2004 2:57 AM
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