This line of discussion I find unnecessary. It could have taken a totally different direction if one of you would have rightly challenged Tom's assertion that Martyn Lloyd-Jones was or could have been considered to be a "Charismatic". IMHO, he was clearly NOT "A Charismatic", although he did hold to quasi-partial non-cessationist views. I have never read anything that he wrote where he would even entertain the idea of accepting extra-biblical revelation. If he did, I am not aware of it. From all that I have read of the man's writings, he was unwavering in his belief of a closed canon and that the inspired written Word of God was the sole and final authority in ALL matters of faith and practice.

If one is willing to accept that Lloyd-Jones cannot and should not be included in the definition of what makes a "Charismatic", then the issue whether he was a regenerate man due to his inclusion is a moot point.

Now as to my own position as to whether or not Charismatics can be/are saved, it is consistent with what I hold to be true about all sects (not cults). Blanket condemnations are ALWAYS wrong, because there is undoubtedly at least one individual within such groups who is a true believer and who is either ignorant of what the group teaches or who is inconsistent with what he SAYS and what he truly BELIEVES. The fact is we ALL are guilty of some degree of inconsistency between what we profess and what we truly believe, which belief resides in the heart and is often evident in visible actions. And as I have too often said, the fact that one may be saved within such a group does not give any validity to their heresy or aberrant teaching. Most are saved IN SPITE OF what is taught and not BECAUSE of it. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Salvation is of the LORD. And history, both biblical and secular witnesses to the mystery of grace in saving sinners and delivering them from the most incredible situations, not the least being their own selves. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/joy.gif" alt="" />

In His Grace,

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simul iustus et peccator

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