It could have taken a totally different direction if one of you would have rightly challenged Tom's assertion that Martyn Lloyd-Jones was or could have been considered to be a "Charismatic". IMHO, he was clearly NOT "A Charismatic", although he did hold to quasi-partial non-cessationist views.
Yes, I see your point, however, there are many that consider him Charismatic as well (Piper and Grudem accept MLJ as a "C."). Several Reformed individuals I know will not
read him because of this very fact. Thus, I chose not to challenge Tom's statement
(Martyn Lloyd-Jones could
be called a Charismatic, though I may challenge this later depending on context...) as it may very well be correct depending on one’s definition of Charismatic.
Martyn Lloyd-Jones was a cessationist, however, he did teach the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as a distinct experience to conversion. But, he came out very strongly against the Warfield kind of cessationism. He deals with the cessationist arguments and decides that they are based on conjectures and arguments from silence in order to justify a particular prejudice. He states emphatically, "To hold such a view," he says, "is simply to quench the Spirit" (see Piper's sermon below). In addition, MLJ spoke of “Seeking the Baptism of the Holy Spirit,” but this is not the same as speaking in tongues.... He looked at this as happening after
regeneration. As matter a fact in his book Joy Unspeakable
he states, “The Spirit does give experiences. I have tried to show that there is no experience possible to the Christian in this world higher than this experience of the baptism with the Spirit.” While I do believe MLJ was much more balanced than many I see today, none-the-less, he held to a second work
of the Holy Spirit. This second work
is consistent with what some
would consider a Charismatic doctrine (but again it depends on one's definition of "C"). In addition, MLJ said such things as:
I think it is quite without scriptural warrant to say that all these gifts ended with the apostles or the Apostolic Era. I believe there have been undoubted miracles since then. (Iain H. Murray, David Martyn Lloyd-Jones: The Fight of Faith 1939-1981, p. 786. See also Joy Unspeakable, p. 246.)
It is perfectly clear that in New Testament times, the gospel was authenticated in this way by signs, wonders and miracles of various characters and descriptions ... Was it only meant to be true of the early church? ... The Scriptures never anywhere say that these things were only temporary—never! There is no such statement anywhere! (The Sovereign Spirit, p. 39).
MLJ also spoke out against what many Charismatics do as well; including tongues as seen today. An interesting, sermon on MLJ is A Passion for Christ-Exalting Power
, by John Piper.