I have been reading this thread , and it really is coming back to the issue of: free will/enslaved will.

Again I will state that Limited atonement can only be embraced by the person who believes that God in eternity past chose some for salvation, and others for damnation.

There has been the cry of " What are we robots then?" already in this thread and I am surprised no one has posted the scripture ( you may have, I have just been skimming through--).

First. I would think that there needs to be a definition of 'will' and 'agency'. These two words seem to be getting used quite interchangeably on this discussion.

Now in clear way scripture declares God's sovereignty and his sovereignty in 'choosing'

"Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens." Rom 9:18

Right after that verse comes the , what I call, Robot verse. Everyone always asks it when presented with this doctrine.

"You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" Rom 9:19 NKJV

"You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" Rom 9:19 NASB

"Well then, you might say, "Why does God blame people for not listening? Haven't they simply done what he made them do?" Rom 9:19 NLT

See how it clear it is, that even people in Pauls day asked the same question: WHy blame me me, why hold me accountable? I'm just doing what God made me do. I can't be held responible.

( This is usually natural mans reaction after he finds out he is no longer Invicta, or that he is no longer the Master and Commander of the far side of his soul).

I shall leave the reader to go and find out the next few verses. Since I am not in a pulpit, and since this is not a sermon, I can do that.

If after reading that passage, your knee jerk reaction is to say: "this whole passage deals with just Gods treatment of Israel".. then I would counsel you that there are other dispensational boards out there that are quite active.

Limited atonement can only be understood, and can only be embraced by someone who believes that God has elected some to salvation and eternity with him, and elected others to eternal damnation in hell. While I am beginning to believe that the cross brought some modicum of 'common grace' even to unbelievers, the aspect of the 'atonement' ( more of a legal, perhaps judicial (?) term---placing us in a good standing with God legally..) is only, and will only ever be limited in nature to thse whom he has chosen. The objects of his wrath will never and can never be 'atoned' with God. Therefore, it is LIMITED.

Of course thats also a point that my dad made at point. Either the points laid out in Calvins Institutes are taken as a whole, and you believe them.. or else you choose another system of thought. He'd sum it up by saying: "you pays your money and makes your choice" ( which was his way of trying to be cute about the whole thing). But there is within his statement some truth. Either it all fits together, or we toss it all out and we accept another system of interpretation.

Just posting yet another post of my own two copper coins.