The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum "Christ died in a general way for all."?

J Edwards,


You have got to be kidding. All you ask for is scarcasm. You want me to go to original language???

The Bible was written in Greek, was studied in Greek, was preached in Greek, was practices in Greek for the first 1000yrs almost exclusively. Latin in the Roman See only and only partially for the Learned class and was not the spoken language until late 7th and 8th centuries in the west.
It really didn't matter, most documents and Church writtings were coming from the East. And you want me to translate using original texts and content. That is PRECISELY what you got from the best Greek Scholars of that day from the very beginning, including the Apostles themeselves.
What you actually got was from the original text of the Apostles, the teachers of them since and explained in that language from the entire teachings, not just what eventually was written.


I'm not the one writing the Gospels. Allthough you are proclaiming that is what you need to do, thus you better have some scholarship. I can see the trouble you have with the English language,you will surely have trouble with the Greek.

The most scholarly was Christ. He gave it to and even if you want to put the OT into it, it would still apply. However, we are dealing with NT mostly here. He gave ALL Truth to the apostles, They taught, explained and the believers put it into practice even before it was ever written.
We don't have that probem of trying to find Truth. We have it, It was given long ago. Millions of believers were saved by it. One cannot fall into error if one relies on the Holy Spirit rather than their terrific hermeneutical skills. That is precisely where all the error has ever come from. Every single false teaching came about because some brilliant bishop thought he could do better, thus strayed from the Gospel Truth. Two, in particular come to mind, Origen, brilliant man, Augustine, another, Both amount to very little within the Church because of their false teachings. They did not stick to what has always been believed. That always is the Holy Spirit working within His Body, His Church preserving that Gospel. He is not interested in preserving only a portion of it, but all of it.
Protestants have thrown out everything but what was written, thus need to go through hoops and never have gotten it all right. Every group has some truth, but none have it all. If you all got together, you might have the Truth, but even then, I'm not so sure.

This is applying directly to you. As is II Pet 1:20. Man is not supposed to interpret scripture. Why? It does not need to be interpreted. All Truth was given including the teaching, meaning, and practice. That is what is precisely being safeguarded by the Holy Spirit through the faithful. He gave it to us totally. Not piecemeal, not some vague statements and then left it to us to attempt to decipher. You are epitomizing the very thing Paul and the Holy Spirit knew that sinful man, alone, with his great penchant for pride, ego, individualism made sure it would never be left with one person.

I might add a good example are those the protestants gastigate to no end, the Pope. He, and He alone has the power of interpretation, in fact it is infallible. Yet, the reformers kicked that theory out because they saw all the error creeping in. So what did they do? Maybe not meaning to, but they virtually opened up scripture to private interpretation. The scholastic and enlightenment movements, the Age of Reason, relagated the Bible to nothing more that another literature or science book. They literally had a free-for all.
Really, all you are doing is throwing around all your personal opinions with all this great hermeneutical skill. Why do you think there could possibly be 40,000 plus versions. You have a serious problem with your method.
Yet, on the other hand, the Gospel, within the Church, that Christ founded, has not changed the fundalmental faith, meaning, and practice of it for 2000 years. You cannot find a single century that the Church has not from one generation to the next followed what was always understood from the beginning. Why could it be any different? It is Christ, Himself we are speaking about. If you believe Christ can and or did change the Gospel somewhere since the Apostles and He gave more to someone else, I have never heard about it. But I can assure you, Truth does not come to individuals. I only know that because the Bible says so. So to rely on you or any other individual to actually interpret, which is new gospel from the original, would be very unsafe, but also unscriptural.
That you chose to do so is your choice. But that choice is not mine. If you are satisified that you can come up with ALL TRUTH on your own and only from partial truth, which is not explained Truth, so be it.

That is precisely the point I was making. It is His Scholarship I am relying on even before the Apostles received it.

Yes, thanks to them, you even have a written portion. The Gospel was meant to be oral. It was in the oral tradition throughout history to that point. They did not have printing presses like we do. That is precisely why the Gospel was given to several individuals at the same time, not one. Even the OT is really several individuals though they are separated by many years, but the fact they are consistant shows it is not them but some higher Power, namely God, who was leading. them. Moses wrote the first 5 books. Do you really think he lived with Adam to get first hand facts. It was handed down stories and the guidance of God that wrote them. The NT is no different. We have the written letters only because Paul could not travel again and at those moments, so he wrote. Otherwise, we would have had the Bible written by second hand disciples, which we actually do have, but protestants have always denied their validity.

Reading and studying is what we are only supposed to do. You should have been properly taught and then when reading and studying you can apply it to your Christian life. It is a life of living, not intellectual finding it. Protestants were not always so independent or individualistic. My Grandfather and Father were protestants. They were taught by their respective churches. The churches had creeds, most still use the same that someone mentioned earlier in this thread. But those were guidelines of faith for those churches. ONe was taught and you were expected to teach your children the same.
Somehow, somewhere within the last 75 years churches lost their credibility. People moved from church to themselves to determine or accept truth. Thus the proliferation of truths in the 1000's.

As I pointed out above, this is all moot for me. I have available the best scholars the Church could ever have for 2000 years, including the Original deciminators, and the Original Giver of that Truth. All who spoke Greek.

The Rainbow Series does not have any problems or errors as per scripture. Although it would help that you not attempt to add your thoughts to it. Two things you make into an error and it is not the Rainbow Series but your analysis and misquoting as well. But, Hey, what can you expect from such a one who claims great hermeneutical and scholarly skills, can't even quote properly or more accurate, state it properly. I can see why you have so much trouble understanding the Bible.

Errors as opposed to your man-made interpretation of Scripture. And errors in the paraphrasing which you did inaccurately. I have discovered the real meaning of not only Scripture but the Christian Gospel as delievered by the Holy Spirit to His Church. I have faith in Christ and the Promises of Christ and the Holy Spirit. A faith which is sorely lacking in you. What I don't have is faith in myself that I could actually interpret scripture, let alone there is no need to do so and hopefully do a better job that the Holy Spirit.

I think it is you who need the prayers of all Orthodox Christians. And by the way (you )(they) are prayed for by All.