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#22298
Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:16 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,615
Needs to get a Life
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Needs to get a Life
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,615 |
The argument boils down to, Scripture, not science, should establish the believer’s presupposition of the revelation of God and all that is His. As is already known and has been somewhat discussed, this revelation takes on three basic forms: (1) God’s revelation in nature and history (natural revelation), (2) God’s revelation by His Word (special revelation), and (3) the illumination of the Holy Sprit. As John Frame says though these revelations must be taken together, “natural revelation must be seen through the spectacles of Scripture, illuminated by the Spirit.” If not then we get a distorted view of truth. Though secular science may look upon natural revelation and discover many things (wisdom of the world), apart from God it suppresses truth (Rom 1:18-12) in its evaluation of natural revelation. As John Frame says, “there are wrong ways of being influenced by science.”
Though my memory is flawed at times, I believe Frame lectures saying; Anyone who admits to any special creation at all must grant the reality of apparent age! Science suppresses this truth. Some even argue that God would be lying to us if God made stars appear to be billions of years old. However, God never told us that the methods that scientists use to calculate the age of stars are absolutely and universally valid. The stars are not a book that literally tells us their age and thus do not prove an old earth view. What starlight says about the age of stars depends on your perspective. On the common scientific theory the light we see in the stars began its journey to the earth (in most cases) many years ago. So, on the scientific view, the stars we see appear more recent than they really are. So, if theology presents us with an “apparent age” theory of the stars, astronomy presents us with an “apparent novelty” theory of the stars (Steve Hays).
Any newly created being, whether star, plant, etc., if created mature, will contain data that in other cases would suggest events prior to creation. If Adam and Eve were created mature, their bodies would have suggested that they had been born of normal parents in the normal fashion. Science in suppressing biblical truth does not take this into account. Herein we also see the importance of Special Revelation for interpreting Natural Revelation, et. AL.
Thus, the elementary foundation of FI is unstable. However, based upon the evidence of this type of scientific investigation, which suppresses biblical truth, it feels compelled to assert a presence of a literary or poetic structure in Gen 1 to the exclusion of a chronological sequence or “normal days.” However, Scripture often uses literary devices in narratives that are clearly historical (Gen 2:4; 5:1; 6:9). Thus, use of literary devices do not exclude chronology, for many narratives within these literary structure are chronological.
Thus, there is sufficient ground for me to say FI is not biblical. However, there is sufficient ground for me to take the days in Gen 1 as normal. Though the term yom does not always refer to a 24 hour day, it most often does refer to a 24 hour day when accompanied by numerals. The phrase “evening and morning” also suggests a 24 hour period (Ex 18:13; 27:21). Additionally in the 4th commandment (Ex 20:8-11, compare Ex 35:2), we are told to work “6” days and rest “1” in imitation of God’s creative activity. But, if the days were not normal days it would not be clear what we should imitate! Lastly, the plural days used in Ex 20:11, is NEVER used figuratively elsewhere.
Here I Stand.
Reformed and Always Reforming,
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Entire Thread
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Creation
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Tom
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Thu Feb 17, 2005 9:33 PM
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Re: Creation
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fredman
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Thu Feb 17, 2005 9:49 PM
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Re: Creation
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Tom
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Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:08 PM
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Re: Creation
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Tom
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Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:42 PM
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Re: Creation
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rmwilliamsjr
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Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:52 PM
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Re: Creation
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Tom
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Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:21 AM
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Re: Creation
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Adopted
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Fri Feb 18, 2005 12:38 PM
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Re: Creation
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Tom
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Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:45 PM
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Re: Creation
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Adopted
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Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:05 PM
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Re: Creation
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Pilgrim
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Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:21 PM
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Re: Creation
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MarieP
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Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:27 PM
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Re: Creation
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Anonymous
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Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:34 PM
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Re: Creation
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Tom
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Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:57 PM
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Re: Creation
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J_Edwards
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Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:31 PM
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Re: Creation
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Adopted
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Sat Feb 19, 2005 12:00 PM
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Re: Creation
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J_Edwards
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Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:49 PM
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Re: Creation
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Peter
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Sat Feb 19, 2005 5:11 PM
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Re: Creation
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Pilgrim
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Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:07 PM
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Re: Creation
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Adopted
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Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:58 PM
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Re: Creation
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Pilgrim
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Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:30 PM
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Re: Creation
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li0scc0
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Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:13 PM
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Re: Creation
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J_Edwards
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Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:01 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:18 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Tom
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Sun Feb 20, 2005 3:04 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Sun Feb 20, 2005 3:27 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:10 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:37 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Henry
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Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:40 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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fredman
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Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:08 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:17 PM
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fredman
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Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:24 PM
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Anonymous
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Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:51 PM
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Henry
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Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:09 PM
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J_Edwards
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Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:48 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Henry
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Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:33 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:59 PM
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Anonymous
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Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:26 PM
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Tom
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Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:56 PM
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Anonymous
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Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:12 AM
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Tom
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Sat Feb 26, 2005 7:11 AM
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Anonymous
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Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:25 AM
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Anonymous
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Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:13 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Henry
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Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:30 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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rmwilliamsjr
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Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:00 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Henry
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Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:48 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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rmwilliamsjr
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Sun Feb 27, 2005 11:34 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Pilgrim
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Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:23 AM
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rmwilliamsjr
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Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:29 AM
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Pilgrim
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Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:59 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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J_Edwards
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Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:41 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Henry
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Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:35 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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rmwilliamsjr
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Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:56 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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J_Edwards
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Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:28 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:47 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Tom
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Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:40 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:28 PM
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CovenantInBlood
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Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:26 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:54 AM
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:35 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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rmwilliamsjr
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Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:02 PM
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:17 PM
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rmwilliamsjr
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Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:36 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:41 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Sat Mar 12, 2005 6:48 AM
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CovenantInBlood
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Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:20 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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CovenantInBlood
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Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:38 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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rmwilliamsjr
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Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:23 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Tom
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Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:11 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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CovenantInBlood
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Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:34 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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J_Edwards
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Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:26 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:46 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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J_Edwards
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Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:16 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:02 AM
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Yummy Yom
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J_Edwards
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Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:53 PM
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Re: Yummy Yom
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Anonymous
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Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:15 AM
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Re: Yummy Yom
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J_Edwards
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Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:21 PM
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Re: Yummy Yom
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Anonymous
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Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:01 PM
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Re: Yummy Yom
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J_Edwards
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Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:46 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:13 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:41 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:38 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:11 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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fredman
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Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:42 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:09 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:23 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Pilgrim
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Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:35 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:36 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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rmwilliamsjr
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Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:58 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:12 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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J_Edwards
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Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:08 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:23 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:59 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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J_Edwards
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Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:40 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Henry
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Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:17 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Henry
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Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:47 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Henry
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Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:52 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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rmwilliamsjr
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Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:58 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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J_Edwards
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Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:57 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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rmwilliamsjr
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Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:33 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:11 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Tom
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Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:33 AM
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For Brian
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Tom
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Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:05 AM
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Re: For Brian
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Anonymous
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Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:17 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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J_Edwards
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Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:54 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:40 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Henry
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Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:20 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:52 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:57 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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fredman
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Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:08 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:44 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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J_Edwards
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Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:17 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:11 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Pilgrim
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Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:00 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:12 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Pilgrim
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Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:47 PM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:23 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Tom
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Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:25 AM
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Re: Creation . . . . . and a related question!
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Anonymous
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Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:27 PM
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