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#29598
Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:50 PM
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,425 Likes: 12
Needs to get a Life
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Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,425 Likes: 12 |
Speratus said: The Supra/Infralapsarian debates are simply rationalizing attempts to rescue a failed "double predestination" doctrine which only hyper-Calvinists can accept. The rest of the Calvinists refuse to take "double predestination" to its logical and unscriptural conclusion. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/Eeeeeek.gif" alt="" /> Speratus, if you truly understood the doctrine of "double predestination" you would understand that it is NOT a doctrine held by only hyper-Calvinists. In fact it is a doctrine that is held by the majority of Calvinists and down through history. Here are a few Reformed confessions that affirm the positive-negative schema. The Reformed Confession: 1536 French Confession of Faith: 1559 The Belgic Confession of Faith: 1561 The Second Helvetic Confession: 1566 The Westminster Confession of Faith: 1643 Of course what I am talking about is not the "positive- positive" side, but the "positive-negative" side of the issue. I am not sure if you a deliberately misrepresenting Calvinists, or just ignorant of these matters. I don’t mind that you don’t agree with Calvinists, but it isn’t very Christian to misrepresent people. In case you didn’t read the article that Pilgrim gave the link to by RC Sproul, I will post it again for you. http://www.the-highway.com/DoublePredestination_Sproul.htmlI highly recommend that you read this article, but if you choose not to, here is something from the article to consider. Please notice the quotes from Luther. In the Reformed view God from all eternity decrees some to election and positively intervenes in their lives to work regeneration and faith by a monergistic work of grace. To the non-elect God withholds this monergistic work of grace, passing them by and leaving them to themselves. He does not monergistically work sin or unbelief in their lives. Even in the case of the "hardening" of the sinners' already recalcitrant hearts, God does not, as Luther stated, "work evil in us (for hardening is working evil) by creating fresh evil in us."2 Luther continued: When men hear us say that God works both good and evil in us, and that we are subject to God's working by mere passive necessity, they seem to imagine a man who is in himself good, and not evil, having an evil work wrought in him by God; for they do not sufficiently bear in mind how incessantly active God is in all His creatures, allowing none of them to keep holiday. He who would understand these matters, however, should think thus: God works evil in us (that is, by means of us) not through God's own fault, but by reason of our own defect. We being evil by nature, and God being good, when He impels us to act by His own acting upon us according to the nature of His omnipotence, good though He is in Himself, He cannot but do evil by our evil instrumentality; although, according to His wisdom, He makes good use of this evil for His own glory and for our salvation.2 Thus, the mode of operation in the lives of the elect is not parallel with that operation in the lives of the reprobate. God works regeneration monergistically but never sin. Sin falls within the category of providential concurrence. Tom
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Entire Thread
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Double predestination
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knoxandcalvin
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Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:07 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:40 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:43 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:59 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:21 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:01 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:46 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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gotribe
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Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:30 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:28 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:46 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:57 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:08 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:14 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:04 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:17 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:41 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:20 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:13 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:41 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:27 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Tom
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Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:50 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:38 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:48 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:36 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:39 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:36 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:07 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Tom
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:53 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Tom
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:37 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:24 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Tom
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:31 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:42 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:02 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:14 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:45 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:57 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:56 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:32 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:41 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:53 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:03 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:00 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:18 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:50 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:16 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:04 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:06 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:13 PM
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Re: Posting long articles here
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Pilgrim
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:21 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:43 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:11 PM
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:48 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:23 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:21 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:30 AM
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Double predestination and Romans 11
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J_Edwards
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Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:52 PM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:54 AM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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J_Edwards
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:59 AM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:42 AM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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J_Edwards
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:42 PM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:19 PM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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J_Edwards
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Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:39 AM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Anonymous
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Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:20 AM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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J_Edwards
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Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:24 PM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Joe k
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Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:42 PM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:35 AM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Tom
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Sat Dec 17, 2005 5:46 AM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:45 AM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Tom
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Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:43 AM
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Joe k
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:17 PM
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Anonymous
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Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:37 AM
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Joe k
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Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:56 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:52 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Wes
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:37 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:29 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:50 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:18 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:42 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:22 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:21 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:37 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:32 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:45 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:58 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:28 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:22 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:38 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Tom
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:10 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:35 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:34 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:35 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:13 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:54 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:28 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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li0scc0
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:01 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:22 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:03 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:58 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:33 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:14 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:53 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 19, 2005 4:36 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:21 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:08 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:24 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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William
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:05 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:07 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:16 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:04 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:47 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:28 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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William
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:29 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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William
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:14 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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William
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Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:23 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:57 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:25 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:50 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:18 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Wes
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:04 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:12 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Wes
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:26 PM
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beloved57
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:18 PM
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J_Edwards
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:10 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:28 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:24 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:10 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Adopted
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:50 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:58 PM
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Privation of the Good
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J_Edwards
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:58 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Robin
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:31 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Tom
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Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:44 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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li0scc0
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Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:24 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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gnarley
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:10 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:35 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:04 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:20 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:10 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:31 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:58 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:23 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:09 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:59 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:06 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:24 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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doulos
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:42 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:07 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:31 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:36 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:51 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Wes
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:11 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:52 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:42 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:01 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:51 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:34 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:41 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:51 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:56 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:02 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:51 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:57 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:07 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:58 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:19 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:57 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Adopted
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Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:01 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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doulos
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:40 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Adopted
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:38 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:10 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Adopted
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:59 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:17 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:50 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Adopted
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:36 AM
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