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speratus said:
Joe K asks,

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What purpose would you like to look for Sperry?

If God's purpose is for all things to work together for the good of elect, should we not expect that the reprobate have some role in accomplishing that good? So, God's foreordination would be more than simply causing people to sin or choosing to pass by so that He can damn them?

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Do you have a mutible God? One who hates with an ever;asting hatred, then loves with an everlasting love? If everything is created by God, then how can satan create one to be a vessel of dishonor? Nowhere does scripture hint at this.


God is not mutable but man is. Sin, which God truly hates, is not of the essence of man. Pre-fall and post-glorification man don't have it.

Adam was made in the image of God, a vessel of honor, without sin. When Adam fell, he lost the image of God and became a vessel of dishonor. The sin of Adam was imputed to all of Adam's seed who are regarded as vessels of dishonor even before they sin. However, in believers, such as Jacob, the righteousness of Christ is imputed to them and God regards them as vessels of honor and objects of love.

Satan is the father of unbelievers (John 8:42-45). However, Adam made himself and his seed vessels of dishonor (Romans 5:12). God foreordained the fall but did not cause it.
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Can a sheep become a goat or a goat become a sheep? NO!!!!


Yes, Adam was a sheep who became a goat. The elect will become sheep.


No, sheep are never goats, and goats never become sheep sperry. You have it backwards, God does not impute the ROC then declare the vessel as honorable, God fist loved them from eternity, this is why they receive the blood of Christ and His righteoussness.

How do the reprobate relate to the lives of the elect? This is a good question. Some like Herman Hoeksema have attempted to speak of them as a second ransom, I am not in agreement with this completely though.

I am satified that Gods purpose are first and foremost to Glorify Him. And His justice is glorified in the damnation of the elect.

Read the following please:

the reprobate are always damned to eternal hell in the way of their own sin. It is true that God determined what their final end would be -- and that He did so before they were ever born. In what other way could one possibly interpret the passages quoted earlier? But the wicked are definitely cast into the torments of hell because of their own evil acts. Never can they point their finger at God, declaring, "God has forced me to do that which was contrary to His will; the fault therefore lies with God and not with me." The wicked reprobate consciously and willingly sin, and for that sin they shall surely be cast into eternal desolation.
One of the many Scriptural passages which indicate this, is found in Luke 11:49-51, "Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute: that the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; from the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation."

They do serve the purpose of the elect. Look at the crucifiction of Christ? This, if the only reason, is enough for me.


Acts 4:27-28, "for of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together for to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done."

There never was a sinner half as big as Christ is as a Savior.