Originally Posted by hisalone

I read through your post and where we split ways is our interpretation of 1 Corinthians. It appears your belief is that all the gifts are in operation today, where my stance is that certain sign gifts have ceased.

You have discerned correctly smile.

I do not believe the perfect spoken about in 1 Cor is the Bible but rather the perfect One whom we will know as perfectly as we are known only after His return.

But be that as it may does it not strike you as rather odd that the exercise of spiritual gifts should go from one of free exercise subject to the judgement of the Body after such an exercise to a paradigm of allowing few if any gifts to operate from the Body such that only a relative few gifted individuals are allowed free exercise thereof up front?

Does it not seem odd that such a change in paradigm falls or stands on the meaning of one word in 1 Cor 13. Namely the word "perfect"? If that one word does indeed mean the Bible then perhaps it's justified. But if it does not do you realize what a restriction the Church of today is putting on the operation of the Holy Spirit?

Does that one word so clearly mean "Bible" or does it possibly mean something else? Are we to limit God in the Church on the possibility that it might actually mean "bible" wnen in fact the text says "perfect" not "bible"?

I am not trying to open up a discussion of spiritual gifts only pointing to how much we may be limiting God if we do not get back to allowing the free operation of spiritual gifts (whatever they may be today). The free operation is my emphasis not whether spiritual gifts (normally referrred to as sign gifts) are for today or not.

An example is the issue of tongues, those were known languages and inmportant in the start of the early church. Also in the early church they did not yet have all of scripture, the finished revelation of God as we have now and the Spirit did work in a marvelous way, gving people utterances, but that isn't necessary today, we have the full revelation of Jesus Christ in the canon of scripture. Healings is another one, not that God can't heal through prayer, but people aren't gifted such as Paul or Peter were to be able to lay hands on people and make them well. Again that was for the purpose of establishing the church.

I wonder what saints in places where they do not put much stock on that which lies between our ears would say about the ways in which God is working a modern day Acts in today's times?

Have you ever read the book Anointed for Burial detailing the Church in Cambodia just before the fall of Vietnam? That book opened my eyes to a lot of things. Not the least of which was that what I understand in my head might not have been correct with respect to what God was willing to still do in His Body.

When I said you would "freak" out someone, it would be considered strange and unbiblical in our church body. It would be disruptive and might even in some cases cause others to follow suit, causing disunity.

Disunity is a state of heart. Not of what one does or does not do with respect to the free exercise of any spiritual gifts.

It is a state of heart that causes disunity in the Body.

If you as a friend come before me and start mouthing tongues (assuming you were willing to not abide by the prohibition in exercise mentioned in 1 Cor with no interpreter present) and I did not believe tongues existed today I might look upon your babbling as funny but I do not believe you and I would become enemies or disunited by your exuberent babbling.

Likewise it should be in the Church. No disunity needs to happen.

Look at what happened at the Toronto Blessing. You would always be welcome to attend our fellowship, but it would be expected that the form of worship would be respected.

Ah..yes the Toronto Blessing had it's own problems. I am very familiar with what happened there.

But we shouldn't throw the baby of freedom in Christ within the Body out with the proverbial water of confusion either smile.

And yes...if I came to your church I would most definitely respect your order of worship even if I might see it as incredibly restricting.

Just a little while ago had the most incredible and powerful move of the Holy Spirit within me while listening to worship music. Where I burst forth with praise of God while weeping almost uncontrollably at God's graciousness to me.

No I do not speak in tongues. But the power of God came upon me so strongly that I could not help but stand up and raise my hands and start moving them in rhythm to my heart expressing thanks and worship to God.

Should such a thing be restrained because someone's religious sensitivities might be offended or otherwise be made uncomfortable? The Lord is returning shortly and we as Christians need to break before Him and start being all that He has called us to be.

We need to give each other freedom to operate under His power and His authority within the Body. Church leaders need to humble themselves instead of constantly trying to protect their turf and the status quo.