Originally Posted by carlos123
Are we to submit to others only because they are recognized? I dare say not.
Scripture disagrees:

Hebrews 13:17 (ASV) "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit [to them]: for they watch in behalf of your souls, as they that shall give account; that they may do this with joy, and not with grief: for this [were] unprofitable for you."

Also, Elders are not qualified nor restricted due to physical age.

1 Timothy 4:12 (ASV) "Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an ensample to them that believe, in word, in manner of life, in love, in faith, in purity."

Elders are called by the Holy Spirit AND appointed (aka: ordained) by men and not simply "recognized" to their office:

Acts 20:28 (ASV) "Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood."

1 Timothy 4:14 (ASV) "Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery." (notice the organizational structure)

Titus 1:5 (ASV) "For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that were wanting, and appoint elders in every city, as I gave thee charge;"

May I add that we are not to submit to only recognized elders or unrecognized elders but also to one another as fellow brethren. We are to head to the bottom in loving service to others.

Originally Posted by carlos123
Tell me something...which of the following two is the greater submission?

#1. I go to a Sunday Church faithfully. I go and sit and stand, kneel and pray,... Then when the service is over I go home and live for myself the rest of the week until the following Sunday.

#2. I don't go to a Sunday Church. I get with Christians throughout the week to...
1. Such an individual is a hypocrite and thus does not prove anything against biblical submission to those whom God has called to serve as Elders (pastor/teachers/rulers in the Church).

2. You are neglecting the biblical mandate to meet together in corporate worship according to the will of God as revealed in Scripture. The true Church can be defined according to Scripture as one where there is: a) the pure preaching of the Word, b) the right administration of the sacraments, and c) exercising of church discipline.

Originally Posted by carlos123
We claim far and wide that we are living in submission simply because we attend a Sunday service when in fact we may be very rebellious in heart in the eyes of God overall.
Strawman ALERT! Scripture in myriad places demands that worship be done in "spirit", i.e., in, by and through the Holy Spirit from the heart, AND in "truth", i.e., according to biblical teaching, aka: propositional, absolute truth. The fact that so many "go to church" without a right heart is again no proof that the organized church and one's submission to it as it is faithful to the Word should be rejected. "As a man thinketh, so is he", i.e., IF one has a regenerated heart which is desirous to obey God in all things, one's conduct will be an expression of it. (cf. Deut 10:16; Jh 14:15; 15:10; Jam 2:14ff; 1Jh 5:2,3)

There can be 1000's of vain gatherings of those who profess to be followers of Christ and call themselves a "church". But their disobedience and dissimulation does not abrogate the biblical teaching concerning how one's heart should be and how it should be expressed in meeting corporately in an organized assembly. God's Word stands upon its own merits and not upon man's faithfulness in keeping it aright.

The true Church has always been an "organization". Anyone who even reads the Bible in a cursory fashion can see this, e.g., Tabernacle, Temple, Synagogue, homes, and meeting houses. The outward form of meeting changed by God's direction at various times, but the internal structure has always remained basically the same. There have always been leaders called to serve God and to minister to the gathering of believers, (too many references to list), to whom was given great responsibility and to whom respect and obedience was due.

In His grace,

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simul iustus et peccator

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