Originally Posted by MikeL
Originally Posted by Pilgrim
"No man is "forced" to do anything he does not desire to do. Man ALWAYS chooses that which is most important to him at any given moment."
But every man is forced to choose according to his greatest desire, right?

Pure nonsense. I have a better idea of man: he's a rational being, capable of weighing options and making decisions. Is he prejudiced? You bet. If unsaved is he leaning away from God? Uh, yeah. That's pretty obvious to anyone who reads the Bible, or the daily paper.
Nonsense, indeed, re: your response. Man is never "forced" to do that which he does not want to do. EVERY choice is made freely; never forced although it may be done under external compulsion. Thus men sin most freely (naturally) and love to do so. This is everywhere attested to in Scripture as it is in life itself, never mind the newspaper. If it is the 'greatest desire' that determines the will, then how could anything done said to be 'forced'? [Linked Image]

Originally Posted by MikeL
The question is this: Is man totally unable to respond to the gospel when it is preached to him?

Now, you can text-trade all you like - there aren't any verses that answer this question in the affirmative.

In fact, you have to assume man can respond for any of the NT to make any sense whatsoever!
1. nope no man is capable of responding to the Gospel in his natural (unregenerate, spiritual dead, fallen) state. Yet, he is wholly responsible to do so and fully refuses to comply because he hates God by nature.

2. Text-trade? Did you actually READ [Linked Image] those passages I provided which clearly show the fallen, sinful spiritually dead condition of the natural man and his inability to do anything good. He doesn't even seek God... NO ONE says Paul. And what would your suggestion be in this regard, that we dispense with using God's inspired, inerrant and infallible word for some quip from the pen of C.S. Lewis or perhaps we should restrict our source of truth to your own personal musings? igiveup

3. No verses that say man is unable to respond to the Gospel, you say? I beg to differ and I did provide one that teaches such explicitly. Here it is again,

John 6:44 (ASV) "No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day."

a. No man (Grk: oudeis) = Universal negative, aka: none, zero, nobody, not even one, no exception, NingĂșn hombre, kein, Никакие.
b. can (Grk: dunatai) = power, ability, possibility
c. come to me (Grk: elthein aor. inf.) = become a disciple of Jesus, believe savingly upon Him
d. except (Grk: ean me) = unless, not without, if not
e. the Father (Grk: ho pater) = God, God the Father
f. draw (Grk: helkusa) = drag, haul, pull; cf. Jh 12:32; 18:10; 21:6,11; Acts 21:30; Jam 2:6
See also, Jh 1:12, 13; 3:3,5, et al

Originally Posted by MikeL
I've posted it elsewhere, but I'm not sure it's been addressed yet, but there is a *difference* between being able to do something and choosing to do it.

That distinction sweeps away most if not all of these verses you've cut and paste from blueletterbible.com.
Wrong! rolleyes2 In regards to God and all things good, unregenerate men cannot because they choose not. And they choose not because of their corruption of nature; they love sin and hate God thus they will only and always choose that which is contrary to God and righteousness. What's so difficult to understand? The difficulty is and always has been, you simply cannot take the insult. Your fictitious autonomy is ripped from under you and your pride is crushed under the just judgment of God. The charge is, in your natural state, you and every man, woman and child are born spiritually DEAD, not sick, not terminally ill, but DEAD.


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simul iustus et peccator

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