Originally Posted by MikeL
Man is not determined by desire. Man is influenced by desire. Man is also influenced by reason. Man has a brain, and that brain is supposed to control his desires. I think a complete picture of man includes his desires, his will, and something else - call it his heart. It's the place for stable sentitments, and a liaison between logic and desire (brain, and stomach if you like). Patriotism, for example is often both illogical and inconvenient. But it keeps the soldier in the battle when he wants to run away.
I nor anyone else has even hinted that "man is determined by desire."! nono Man basic elements consist of mind, emotions and will. The intellect (mind) and emotions (desires) are what determine what the will does. The will is not an autonomous element that does what it wants especially anything contrary to the intellect and/or the desires. This is a popular misunderstanding. Even a cursory consideration of this idea will conclude that it is ludicrous on its face. Thus, according to Scripture, the desires of the natural man are evil only and continually. And Scripture also explicitly states that a man's mind is at enmity with God and opposed to all that is good (aka: the Law). Thus, the will ONLY chooses that which is evil. It's elementary my dear Watson.

Originally Posted by MikeL
CS Lewis give a great example of what I'm trying to say. Say you're walking near a lake, and hear some splashing and a cry for help. Two desires should immediately well up: desire to help the person, and desire to stay safe on dry land. There may be more, but the point is that the greatest desire is probably to stay safe. Yet the right thing to do would be to overcome that desire.
Now Mike, could you please help me find that book in the Bible that C.S. Lewis wrote? If there is no such book, it is because he was not divinely inspired and thus what he wrote must be judged in the light of that which was and is inspired.

Not that it would come as any surprise, but could you please state what you believe in regard to the noetic effects of the Fall? I do know what Scripture says and I also know what The Thirty-nine Articles says. They are in full agreement. In fact, all the major Confessions and Catechisms of the Church agree on this article of doctrine, to which I also will add my agreement. So, fess up... what happened at the Fall? scratchchin


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simul iustus et peccator

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