Originally Posted by rachel
ok- I have read enough on here to know that we all deserve hell and that if one is predestined it is from God's mercy to us, yet my carnal but never ending brain wants to know "if God knows the all the outcomes then why create man since most of them would be born helpless to stop themselves from hurling into hell?

Thanks for all the good questions you have opened up in this thread. I'll try and answer some of them as they appear in each of your replies instead of throwing them all together in one reply. I think it would be easier for you to follow along. grin

In your reply here you first introduce the doctrine of "Foreknowledge" but which is defined by non-Reformed individuals. That view defines foreknowledge as:

1) Prescience: knowing raw facts about someone or something.
2) Knowledge which is obtained through perception.
3) A commensurate action on the part of God based upon what is perceived.

The biblical response in brief and which contradicts this view is:

1) Foreknowledge can be knowledge of facts but it is also used as a synonym for "love", e.g., "For whom he did foreknow [forelove], he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son,..." (Rom 8:29).
2) IF God obtains knowledge of the acts of individuals through perceiving their choices, then de facto, Omniscience is abrogated, because this implies that God did not know what a person would do until after that choice was made. But the biblical doctrine teaches that God's foreknowledge is based not upon what might possibly happen (more on this in a second), but upon what will infallibly happen. And why will it infallibly come to pass because God ordains it. Put another way, God knows all things because He has determined [foreordained] all things. It makes no difference whether one asserts that God's perception of events is 'outside of time'. For the fact and insurmountable hurdle is that until an individual makes a choice, not even God can know what that choice and the consequences of it will be.
3) IF God acts subsequent to an individual's decision(s), then man becomes the sovereign and not God. Thus, Omnipotence is also eradicated. As soon as man is given the power of this fictitious idea of 'free-will', predestination is impossible. Anything God determines after the fact is in actuality "Post-destination", which is nowhere found in Scripture. wink

The second element you introduced in your reply is the question concerning the justice of God. It seems you are wanting to know since God knows all the outcomes why would God create helpless men who will end up in hell.

1) Again, God knows the 'outcome' of all things because He has determined all things (Isa 43:13; 44:7; 46:9,10; Ps 33:11; 135:6; Prov 19:21; 21:30; Dan 4:35).
2) Yes, men are 'helpless' for they possess a corruption of nature which determines all their thoughts, words and deeds. They are spiritually DEAD and thus by nature hate God and all that is good. This is everyone's just punishment which they received when the father of the human race disobeyed God. Adam was the Federal Head of the human race and thus whatever he did, we did (Rom 5:12-18). Additionally, not only does every man woman and child who is born into this world possess that inherited corruption of nature, they also have imputed to them the consequential guilt of Adam's sin. All men are thus guilty before God and worthy of damnation. Paul mentions both of these aspects of Original Sin in the second chapter of Ephesians:

Eph 2:1-3 (ASV) "1 And you [did he make alive,] when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, 2 wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience; 3 among whom we also all once lived in the lust of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:--"
3) Lastly, why would God decree that the vast majority of the human race be born, live their entire lives in sinful rebellion against their Maker and finally be cast into eternal torment? A few simple answers come to mind: 1) To display His ineffable holiness and justice, and 2) to exemplify His infinite love, mercy and grace through the sending of the Son to atone for those whom He determined to receive salvation in Him, and 3) for His own glory.

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simul iustus et peccator

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