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Tom
Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 4,489
Joined: April 2001
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Forums30
Topics7,741
Posts54,751
Members974
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Most Online732 Jan 15th, 2023
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#762
Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 418
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 418 |
Josh,<br><br>Others are doing a great job of pointing you to the Savior Who truly saves, with a strong hand and an outstretched arm. You would be wise to hear them, and lay down your arguments, which are now self-contradictory and, far worse, in open denial of God's glory in ordering our redemption from beginning to end.<br><br>How self-contradictory? You state: [color:red]He can save all who will hear Him. He does not need my help</font color=red>. On a quick reading, it sounds almost right. But that little word [color:red]will</font color=red> exposes your denial of your following statement. <br><br>You are saying: <br>God saves [color:red]those who will hear Him</font color=red>; the act of [color:red]willing to hear</font color=red> being, in your own view, totally contingent upon the creature, God being unable to overthrow the creature's will and remain the kind of God you hope Him to be; meaning that He absolutely DOES need your help, which, again, you want us (or maybe yourself?) to believe is not the case: witness your following sentence: [color:red]He does not need my help</font color=red>. <br><br>It seems you think you are doing the (un-)sovereign (un-)savior a huge favor, because (in your mind) He will be infinitely disappointed to have had you reject His suit. Of course, He must continue to be a little anxious until you "cross the finish line". Actually, what is to prevent you from rejecting Him in heaven, Josh? Will He override your will there? One begins to suspect that God should praise you eternally for doing the right thing to make Him happy.<br><br>This is what is coming across from your posts, Josh. Your distortion of the entire panoply of redemption, that <font class="big">[color:blue]God will save His people</font color=blue></font>, reminds me most of several conversations with local Jehovah's Witnesses, each of whom admitted that, in the final analysis, their security was directly contingent upon their performance. Which of course, in their denial of their own wretched, fallen condition, they somehow hoped they would be able to achieve.<br><br>I do pray that your eyes will be opened, Josh, to your utter need for a Savior, not one who waits, impotently, for you to accept or reject His suit of you, but One Who truly saves; so that you will be able to confidently state:<br><br>"My only comfort, in life and in death, is that I belong--body and soul, in life and in death--not to myself but to my faithful Savior, Jesus Christ, who at the cost of his own blood has fully paid for all my sins and has completely freed me from the dominion of the devil; that he protects me so well that without the will of my Father in heaven not a hair can fall from my head; indeed, that everything must fit his purpose for my salvation. Therefore, by his Holy Spirit, he also assures me of eternal life, and makes me wholeheartedly willing and ready from now on to live for him."<br><br>That is the Comfort you so desperately require, Josh, and to which many are pointing you; not what you so glibly dismiss by implying that I am trying to get you to believe something on the mere grounds of "how good it makes me feel". <br>
In Christ, Paul S
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Entire Thread
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Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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Anonymous
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Wed Jun 19, 2002 4:42 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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Pilgrim
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Wed Jun 19, 2002 5:26 PM
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There cannot be two books of life
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Anonymous
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Thu Jun 20, 2002 4:36 PM
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Re: There cannot be two books of life
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Pilgrim
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Thu Jun 20, 2002 5:29 PM
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Protestant doesn't necessarily mean Calvinist
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Anonymous
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Fri Jun 21, 2002 7:20 PM
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Re: Protestant doesn't necessarily mean Calvinist
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Pilgrim
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Fri Jun 21, 2002 7:54 PM
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That doesn't address the issue
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:51 PM
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Re: That doesn't address the issue
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 5:42 PM
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Re: That doesn't address the issue
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Anonymous
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Wed Jun 26, 2002 3:44 PM
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A Minor Point
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:13 PM
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Re: There cannot be two books of life
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Wes
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Thu Jun 20, 2002 6:17 PM
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Changing a book doesn't change God
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 1:44 PM
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Ordinances Annulled
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 5:56 PM
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Re: Ordinances Annulled
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:32 PM
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Consider this Josh
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Anonymous
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Wed Jun 26, 2002 12:18 AM
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Re: Consider this Josh
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Anonymous
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Wed Jun 26, 2002 4:20 PM
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Re: Consider this Josh
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Anonymous
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Wed Jun 26, 2002 6:56 PM
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Re: Consider this Josh
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Anonymous
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Thu Jun 27, 2002 2:57 AM
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A consideration for you
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 01, 2002 3:30 PM
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Sanctification
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lazarus
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Mon Jul 01, 2002 5:12 PM
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Sanctification in Hebrews 10:29
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:28 PM
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Original Sin = No Free Will
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Wes
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:46 PM
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You misunderstand my position brother
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:19 PM
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Re: You misunderstand my position brother
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Wes
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 7:35 PM
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Re: You misunderstand my position brother
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Anonymous
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Fri Jun 28, 2002 8:54 PM
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Re: You misunderstand my position brother
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Wes
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Sat Jun 29, 2002 2:04 AM
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Re: You misunderstand my position brother
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:25 PM
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Re: You misunderstand my position brother
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Ehud
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Tue Jul 09, 2002 12:12 AM
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The greatest commandment
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Anonymous
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Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:16 PM
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Re: You misunderstand my position brother
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Wes
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Sat Jul 13, 2002 1:15 AM
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Ryle on Assurance
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Anonymous
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Sat Jul 13, 2002 1:10 PM
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Re: Ryle on Assurance
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Wes
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Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:47 PM
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Justification and sanctification are inseparable
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:22 PM
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Justification and sanctification are inseparable but distinct
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 08, 2002 10:42 PM
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The sovereignty of God
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:20 PM
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Re: The sovereignty of God
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Wes
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Fri Aug 09, 2002 12:54 PM
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Meaning of Nothing
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Anonymous
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Sat Jun 29, 2002 12:00 PM
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Meaning of "separate"
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 01, 2002 4:41 PM
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More comments to consider
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 02, 2002 12:40 AM
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John Gill's commentary
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Anonymous
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Fri Jul 12, 2002 4:39 PM
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Re: Meaning of "separate"
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 02, 2002 2:52 AM
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Re: Meaning of "separate"
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:27 PM
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Re: Meaning of "separate"
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 09, 2002 3:09 AM
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Re: Meaning of "separate"
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 30, 2002 1:51 PM
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Re: Meaning of "separate"
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lazarus
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Tue Jul 30, 2002 3:55 PM
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What God wills
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Anonymous
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Sat Aug 24, 2002 6:05 AM
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Re: What God wills
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Ehud
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Sat Aug 24, 2002 2:28 PM
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Re: What God wills
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Anonymous
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Tue Aug 27, 2002 5:57 PM
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Re: What God wills
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lazarus
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Tue Aug 27, 2002 6:43 PM
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Conditions and works
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 01, 2002 5:10 PM
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Re: Conditions and works
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lazarus
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Tue Oct 01, 2002 11:57 PM
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God not a respecter...
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lazarus
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Sat Jun 29, 2002 11:57 PM
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Re: God not a respecter...
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:19 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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Ricky
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Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:26 AM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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Pilgrim
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Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:38 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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J_Edwards
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Thu Jun 20, 2002 5:41 PM
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One may lose more than the tree of life
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:24 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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Ricky
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Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:32 AM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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Kez
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Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:43 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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chestnutmare
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Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:06 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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Anonymous
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Thu Jun 20, 2002 11:38 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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Anonymous
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Fri Jun 21, 2002 6:54 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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J_Edwards
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Fri Jun 21, 2002 7:43 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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Anonymous
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Fri Jun 21, 2002 8:02 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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J_Edwards
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Fri Jun 21, 2002 8:13 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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Tom
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Sat Jun 22, 2002 6:13 AM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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carlos
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:44 PM
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Characteristics of sheep
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:18 PM
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Re: Characteristics of sheep
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:18 AM
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Re: Characteristics of sheep
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:12 PM
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Re: Characteristics of sheep
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Anonymous
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Wed Jun 26, 2002 4:49 AM
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Re: Characteristics of sheep
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Anonymous
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Fri Jun 28, 2002 8:56 PM
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Re: Characteristics of sheep
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Anonymous
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Sat Jun 29, 2002 2:37 AM
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Re: Characteristics of sheep
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:16 PM
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Re: Characteristics of sheep
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 09, 2002 2:47 AM
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Re: Characteristics of sheep
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 30, 2002 1:53 PM
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Re: Characteristics of sheep
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Anonymous
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Wed Jul 31, 2002 3:46 AM
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Re: Characteristics of sheep
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carlos
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:17 PM
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Merits vs. Conditions
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Anonymous
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Thu Jun 27, 2002 7:54 PM
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Re: Election....
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carlos
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Fri Jun 28, 2002 12:23 PM
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Re: Election....
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:14 PM
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Re: Election....
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carlos
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Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:37 PM
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Re: Election....
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carlos
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Sun Jul 14, 2002 3:23 PM
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Re: Election....
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:05 PM
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BUSY....
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carlos
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Sat Aug 24, 2002 6:24 PM
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Re: perseverance
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carlos
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Fri Jun 28, 2002 2:07 PM
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Re: perseverance
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:12 PM
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The Good Shepherd?
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Anonymous
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:24 PM
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You sorely misjudge me
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 30, 2002 1:38 PM
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Re: You sorely misjudge me
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lazarus
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Tue Jul 30, 2002 3:21 PM
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In reply...
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:30 PM
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Re: In reply...
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Anonymous
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Fri Aug 09, 2002 12:42 AM
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Re: In reply...
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 01, 2002 5:19 PM
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Re: In reply...
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Anonymous
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Wed Oct 02, 2002 6:15 PM
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Re: In reply...
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Anonymous
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Fri Oct 11, 2002 3:52 PM
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Re: In reply...
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Ehud
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Fri Oct 11, 2002 3:54 PM
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Some questions
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Anonymous
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Sun Aug 04, 2002 11:20 PM
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Some answers
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:26 PM
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Re: perseverance
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carlos
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Sun Jul 21, 2002 3:03 AM
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Forgot "DO NOT"
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carlos
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Sun Jul 21, 2002 2:16 PM
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Hope he returns
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 22, 2002 1:08 PM
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Haven't left, just been busy
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 30, 2002 2:00 PM
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Re: Haven't left, just been busy
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 30, 2002 5:10 PM
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Re: perseverance
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:01 PM
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Rebuttal on Perseverance
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Anonymous
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Mon Aug 05, 2002 1:57 PM
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Re: Rebuttal on Perseverance
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fredman
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Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:14 PM
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In reply...
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Anonymous
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Sat Aug 24, 2002 6:09 AM
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Re: In reply...
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fredman
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Mon Aug 26, 2002 6:25 PM
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Re: In reply...
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 01, 2002 5:06 PM
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Re: In reply...
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fredman
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Wed Oct 02, 2002 5:56 PM
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conditional salvation and God's warnings
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Anonymous
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Wed Apr 02, 2003 4:53 PM
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Re: conditional salvation and God's warnings
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carlos
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Fri Apr 04, 2003 3:49 PM
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Re: conditional salvation and God's warnings
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fredman
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Fri Apr 11, 2003 10:25 AM
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Re: Merits vs. Conditions
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carlos
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Fri Jun 28, 2002 3:21 PM
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Glorification
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:10 PM
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Re: Glorification
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carlos
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Sun Jul 14, 2002 7:55 AM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:18 PM
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Redirection
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Anonymous
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Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:25 PM
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You read between the lines
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:00 PM
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Re: You read between the lines
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J_Edwards
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:38 PM
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How a man is saved
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 5:08 PM
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Re: How a man is saved
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J_Edwards
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 6:27 PM
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What "save yourselves" actually means
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 8:55 PM
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Josh You Are Soooooo Confused
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J_Edwards
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Mon Jun 24, 2002 10:30 PM
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In reply...
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Anonymous
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Thu Jun 27, 2002 7:49 PM
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Re: In reply...
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J_Edwards
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Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:04 PM
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Re: In reply...
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Ehud
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Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:47 PM
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Resisting God
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Paul_S
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 1:31 AM
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Re: Resisting God
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:01 PM
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Ambiguity and Contradictions
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Paul_S
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:28 PM
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Clarification
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Anonymous
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Fri Jun 28, 2002 8:53 PM
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Contradictions vs. Comfort
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Paul_S
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Sat Jun 29, 2002 4:10 AM
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Your comfort must be scriptural
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Anonymous
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Wed Jul 03, 2002 6:45 PM
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Re: Your comfort must be scriptural
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lazarus
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Thu Jul 04, 2002 12:45 PM
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Re: Your comfort must be scriptural
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carlos
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Sat Jul 06, 2002 2:57 AM
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Conditions vs. Performance
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Anonymous
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Fri Jul 12, 2002 4:44 PM
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Getting personal
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Paul_S
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Fri Jul 12, 2002 6:19 PM
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Re: Getting personal
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Anonymous
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Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:06 PM
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Re: Your comfort must be scriptural
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Anonymous
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Thu Jul 04, 2002 5:21 PM
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Re: Your comfort must be scriptural
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Pilgrim
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Thu Jul 04, 2002 9:39 PM
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What else could Saul do...?
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Anonymous
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Fri Jul 12, 2002 4:43 PM
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Re: What else could Saul do...?
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Pilgrim
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Fri Jul 12, 2002 5:11 PM
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Resisting the Holy Spirit
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Anonymous
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Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:03 PM
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Re: Resisting the Holy Spirit
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Anonymous
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Mon Aug 05, 2002 7:50 PM
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Re: Resisting the Holy Spirit
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Anonymous
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Sat Aug 24, 2002 5:16 AM
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Recreated or Born Again?
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Wes
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Fri Jul 12, 2002 10:10 PM
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Re: Recreated or Born Again?
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Anonymous
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Mon Aug 05, 2002 1:59 PM
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Re: Resisting God
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lazarus
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Wed Jun 26, 2002 4:25 PM
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Redirection
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Anonymous
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Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:13 PM
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Re: Resisting God
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Tom
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Sun Jul 21, 2002 5:59 PM
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Re: Resisting God
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Anonymous
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Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:01 PM
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Re: Resisting God
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Pilgrim
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Mon Aug 05, 2002 4:48 PM
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Joshism & Revelation 22:19
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J_Edwards
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 11:04 AM
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Take God's warnings seriously
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 3:40 PM
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Josh you need to repent
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J_Edwards
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Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:57 PM
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Josh if you are coorect THEN
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J_Edwards
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Wed Jun 26, 2002 12:54 AM
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Re: Josh if you are coorect THEN
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Anonymous
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Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:03 PM
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Re: Josh if you are coorect THEN
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J_Edwards
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Sat Jun 29, 2002 10:54 AM
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Right...
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Anonymous
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Fri Jun 28, 2002 8:57 PM
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Re: Right...
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J_Edwards
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Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:54 PM
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Hebrews 6
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:52 PM
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Re: Hebrews 6
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J_Edwards
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Mon Jul 08, 2002 10:03 PM
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Re: Hebrews 6
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 30, 2002 1:32 PM
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Re: Hebrews 6
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J_Edwards
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Tue Jul 30, 2002 8:51 PM
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Re: Hebrews 6
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carlos
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Tue Jul 30, 2002 10:36 PM
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Re: Hebrews 6
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J_Edwards
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Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:53 AM
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Re: Hebrews 6
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carlos
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Wed Jul 31, 2002 7:01 PM
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The Grip of God
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Anonymous
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Thu Jul 11, 2002 11:56 PM
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Re: Josh you need to repent
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Anonymous
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Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:56 PM
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Re: Josh you need to repent
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J_Edwards
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Wed Jul 31, 2002 10:44 PM
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Re: Josh you need to repent
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Anonymous
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Wed Jul 31, 2002 11:31 PM
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Josh
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Anonymous
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Wed Jul 31, 2002 11:43 PM
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Re: Josh
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J_Edwards
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Thu Aug 01, 2002 10:07 AM
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Re: Josh
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 01, 2002 12:40 PM
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Re: Josh
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J_Edwards
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Thu Aug 01, 2002 1:49 PM
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Re: Josh
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Pilgrim
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Thu Aug 01, 2002 3:38 PM
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Re: Josh
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J_Edwards
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Thu Aug 01, 2002 3:40 PM
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Re: Josh
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 01, 2002 6:44 PM
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Re: Josh
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Pilgrim
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Thu Aug 01, 2002 8:28 PM
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Re: Josh
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Anonymous
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Fri Aug 02, 2002 6:22 PM
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Re: Josh
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Pilgrim
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Fri Aug 02, 2002 7:07 PM
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Re: Josh
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Anonymous
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Wed Aug 07, 2002 11:33 AM
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Re: Josh
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Anonymous
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Sat Aug 24, 2002 6:20 AM
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Re: Josh
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Pilgrim
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Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:23 AM
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Re: Josh
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Anonymous
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Fri Oct 11, 2002 2:49 PM
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Re: Josh
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Ehud
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Fri Oct 11, 2002 3:19 PM
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Re: Josh
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lazarus
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Sat Oct 12, 2002 10:50 PM
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Re: Josh
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Anonymous
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Sun Aug 04, 2002 10:41 PM
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Re: Josh
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 01, 2002 6:31 PM
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Re: Josh
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Pilgrim
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Thu Aug 01, 2002 8:12 PM
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Re: Josh
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Anonymous
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Fri Aug 02, 2002 4:37 PM
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Re: Josh
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lazarus
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Fri Aug 02, 2002 5:02 PM
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Re: Josh
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carlos
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Fri Aug 02, 2002 6:55 PM
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The foreknowledge and sovereignty of God
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:17 PM
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In my defense...
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Anonymous
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Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:14 PM
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Re: In my defense...
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J_Edwards
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Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:50 PM
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In reply...
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Anonymous
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Tue Aug 27, 2002 6:17 PM
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Re: In reply...
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J_Edwards
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Tue Aug 27, 2002 7:55 PM
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Re: In reply...
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 01, 2002 4:35 PM
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Re: In reply...
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J_Edwards
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Sun Oct 13, 2002 1:36 PM
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Re: In my defense...
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fredman
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Thu Aug 08, 2002 3:09 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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li0scc0
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Wed Apr 02, 2003 5:21 PM
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Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
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Pilgrim
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Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:32 PM
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Re: Changing a book doesn't change God
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042Dave
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Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:10 PM
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