Tom
Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada
Posts:
4,585
Joined: April 2001
Forums30
Topics7,830
Posts55,059
Members975
Most Online732Jan 15th, 2023
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
Dear Paul, Your twisting of words and context to find a "contradiction" truly shows what sort of case you build. The phrase, "He can save all who will hear Him. He does not need my help, I need His grace" is only contradictory if you accept the false premise that you have in your reasoning. You reason: 1. God's desire is to be with us 2. I (Josh) think that being with Him is conditional Therefore, God needs our help to achieve His desire The first premise is only partially correct, for while God does desire that men be saved, He also desires that they do so willingly. My reasoning is: 1. God's desire is to be with those who will comply with His will (Matthew 7:21) 2. I cannot comply with God's will on my own (Romans 8:7) Therefore I need His grace My view is not contingent on God's being unable to do anything, for God could force me to comply if He so chose. I simply believe that God does not choose to override our wills. It is not a question of God's sovereignty, but of His methods. IRT: "Of course, He must continue to be a little anxious until you "cross the finish line"." Negative. God already knows the outcome of my Christian life. This does not preclude free will, God simply knows what choices I will make. IRT: "Actually, what is to prevent you from rejecting Him in heaven, Josh? Will He override your will there?" No. But I will be finally perfected in Him, my sin nature being taken from me and His divine nature totally permeating me forever. While I am a partaker in His nature right now, my old sin nature also remains, which makes it possible for me to rebel against Him. IRT: "This is what is coming across from your posts, Josh. Your distortion of the entire panoply of redemption, that God will save His people, reminds me most of several conversations with local Jehovah's Witnesses, each of whom admitted that, in the final analysis, their security was directly contingent upon their performance. Which of course, in their denial of their own wretched, fallen condition, they somehow hoped they would be able to achieve." It is true that my condition WAS wretched and fallen, but now that God has redeemed me, I am a new creature in Him, a partaker of His divine nature, and the temple of the Holy Spirit. So while there is no way a fallen man may live "good enough" to inherit eternal life, I am no longer a fallen man. Even so, my salvation is not contingent on "good performance," but on hearing and following Jesus through the Holy Spirit -- good works will naturally follow. I need no comfort besides that which I already have, because my Saviour truly does save and has sent His Spirit into my heart. I don't live in constant terror of hell, I simply know that if I turn from Christ, I will be damned. I reject Calvinism on scriptural grounds; if it were plainly taught in the Bible, I would believe it. But I refuse to believe in a system of theology that is totally unsupported in scripture. In Christ, Josh
Entire Thread
Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
Anonymous
Wed Jun 19, 2002 4:42 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
Pilgrim
Wed Jun 19, 2002 5:26 PM
There cannot be two books of life
Anonymous
Thu Jun 20, 2002 4:36 PM
Re: There cannot be two books of life
Pilgrim
Thu Jun 20, 2002 5:29 PM
Protestant doesn't necessarily mean Calvinist
Anonymous
Fri Jun 21, 2002 7:20 PM
Re: Protestant doesn't necessarily mean Calvinist
Pilgrim
Fri Jun 21, 2002 7:54 PM
That doesn't address the issue
Anonymous
Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:51 PM
Re: That doesn't address the issue
Pilgrim
Mon Jun 24, 2002 5:42 PM
Re: That doesn't address the issue
Anonymous
Wed Jun 26, 2002 3:44 PM
A Minor Point
Anonymous
Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:13 PM
Re: There cannot be two books of life
Wes
Thu Jun 20, 2002 6:17 PM
Changing a book doesn't change God
Anonymous
Mon Jun 24, 2002 1:44 PM
Ordinances Annulled
Anonymous
Mon Jun 24, 2002 5:56 PM
Re: Ordinances Annulled
Anonymous
Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:32 PM
Consider this Josh
Anonymous
Wed Jun 26, 2002 12:18 AM
Re: Consider this Josh
Anonymous
Wed Jun 26, 2002 4:20 PM
Re: Consider this Josh
Anonymous
Wed Jun 26, 2002 6:56 PM
Re: Consider this Josh
Anonymous
Thu Jun 27, 2002 2:57 AM
A consideration for you
Anonymous
Mon Jul 01, 2002 3:30 PM
Sanctification
lazarus
Mon Jul 01, 2002 5:12 PM
Sanctification in Hebrews 10:29
Anonymous
Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:28 PM
Original Sin = No Free Will
Wes
Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:46 PM
You misunderstand my position brother
Anonymous
Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:19 PM
Re: You misunderstand my position brother
Wes
Tue Jun 25, 2002 7:35 PM
Re: You misunderstand my position brother
Anonymous
Fri Jun 28, 2002 8:54 PM
Re: You misunderstand my position brother
Wes
Sat Jun 29, 2002 2:04 AM
Re: You misunderstand my position brother
Anonymous
Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:25 PM
Re: You misunderstand my position brother
Ehud
Tue Jul 09, 2002 12:12 AM
The greatest commandment
Anonymous
Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:16 PM
Re: You misunderstand my position brother
Wes
Sat Jul 13, 2002 1:15 AM
Ryle on Assurance
Anonymous
Sat Jul 13, 2002 1:10 PM
Re: Ryle on Assurance
Wes
Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:47 PM
Justification and sanctification are inseparable
Anonymous
Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:22 PM
Justification and sanctification are inseparable but distinct
Anonymous
Thu Aug 08, 2002 10:42 PM
The sovereignty of God
Anonymous
Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:20 PM
Re: The sovereignty of God
Wes
Fri Aug 09, 2002 12:54 PM
Meaning of Nothing
Anonymous
Sat Jun 29, 2002 12:00 PM
Meaning of "separate"
Anonymous
Mon Jul 01, 2002 4:41 PM
More comments to consider
Anonymous
Tue Jul 02, 2002 12:40 AM
John Gill's commentary
Anonymous
Fri Jul 12, 2002 4:39 PM
Re: Meaning of "separate"
Anonymous
Tue Jul 02, 2002 2:52 AM
Re: Meaning of "separate"
Anonymous
Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:27 PM
Re: Meaning of "separate"
Anonymous
Tue Jul 09, 2002 3:09 AM
Re: Meaning of "separate"
Anonymous
Tue Jul 30, 2002 1:51 PM
Re: Meaning of "separate"
lazarus
Tue Jul 30, 2002 3:55 PM
What God wills
Anonymous
Sat Aug 24, 2002 6:05 AM
Re: What God wills
Ehud
Sat Aug 24, 2002 2:28 PM
Re: What God wills
Anonymous
Tue Aug 27, 2002 5:57 PM
Re: What God wills
lazarus
Tue Aug 27, 2002 6:43 PM
Conditions and works
Anonymous
Tue Oct 01, 2002 5:10 PM
Re: Conditions and works
lazarus
Tue Oct 01, 2002 11:57 PM
God not a respecter...
lazarus
Sat Jun 29, 2002 11:57 PM
Re: God not a respecter...
Anonymous
Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:19 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
Ricky
Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:26 AM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
Pilgrim
Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:38 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
J_Edwards
Thu Jun 20, 2002 5:41 PM
One may lose more than the tree of life
Anonymous
Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:24 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
Ricky
Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:32 AM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
Kez
Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:43 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
chestnutmare
Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:06 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
Anonymous
Thu Jun 20, 2002 11:38 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
Anonymous
Fri Jun 21, 2002 6:54 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
J_Edwards
Fri Jun 21, 2002 7:43 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
Anonymous
Fri Jun 21, 2002 8:02 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
J_Edwards
Fri Jun 21, 2002 8:13 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
Tom
Sat Jun 22, 2002 6:13 AM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
carlos
Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:44 PM
Characteristics of sheep
Anonymous
Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:18 PM
Re: Characteristics of sheep
Anonymous
Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:18 AM
Re: Characteristics of sheep
Anonymous
Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:12 PM
Re: Characteristics of sheep
Anonymous
Wed Jun 26, 2002 4:49 AM
Re: Characteristics of sheep
Anonymous
Fri Jun 28, 2002 8:56 PM
Re: Characteristics of sheep
Anonymous
Sat Jun 29, 2002 2:37 AM
Re: Characteristics of sheep
Anonymous
Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:16 PM
Re: Characteristics of sheep
Anonymous
Tue Jul 09, 2002 2:47 AM
Re: Characteristics of sheep
Anonymous
Tue Jul 30, 2002 1:53 PM
Re: Characteristics of sheep
Anonymous
Wed Jul 31, 2002 3:46 AM
Re: Characteristics of sheep
carlos
Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:17 PM
Merits vs. Conditions
Anonymous
Thu Jun 27, 2002 7:54 PM
Re: Election....
carlos
Fri Jun 28, 2002 12:23 PM
Re: Election....
Anonymous
Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:14 PM
Re: Election....
carlos
Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:37 PM
Re: Election....
carlos
Sun Jul 14, 2002 3:23 PM
Re: Election....
Anonymous
Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:05 PM
BUSY....
carlos
Sat Aug 24, 2002 6:24 PM
Re: perseverance
carlos
Fri Jun 28, 2002 2:07 PM
Re: perseverance
Anonymous
Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:12 PM
The Good Shepherd?
Anonymous
Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:24 PM
You sorely misjudge me
Anonymous
Tue Jul 30, 2002 1:38 PM
Re: You sorely misjudge me
lazarus
Tue Jul 30, 2002 3:21 PM
In reply...
Anonymous
Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:30 PM
Re: In reply...
Anonymous
Fri Aug 09, 2002 12:42 AM
Re: In reply...
Anonymous
Tue Oct 01, 2002 5:19 PM
Re: In reply...
Anonymous
Wed Oct 02, 2002 6:15 PM
Re: In reply...
Anonymous
Fri Oct 11, 2002 3:52 PM
Re: In reply...
Ehud
Fri Oct 11, 2002 3:54 PM
Some questions
Anonymous
Sun Aug 04, 2002 11:20 PM
Some answers
Anonymous
Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:26 PM
Re: perseverance
carlos
Sun Jul 21, 2002 3:03 AM
Forgot "DO NOT"
carlos
Sun Jul 21, 2002 2:16 PM
Hope he returns
Anonymous
Mon Jul 22, 2002 1:08 PM
Haven't left, just been busy
Anonymous
Tue Jul 30, 2002 2:00 PM
Re: Haven't left, just been busy
Anonymous
Tue Jul 30, 2002 5:10 PM
Re: perseverance
Anonymous
Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:01 PM
Rebuttal on Perseverance
Anonymous
Mon Aug 05, 2002 1:57 PM
Re: Rebuttal on Perseverance
fredman
Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:14 PM
In reply...
Anonymous
Sat Aug 24, 2002 6:09 AM
Re: In reply...
fredman
Mon Aug 26, 2002 6:25 PM
Re: In reply...
Anonymous
Tue Oct 01, 2002 5:06 PM
Re: In reply...
fredman
Wed Oct 02, 2002 5:56 PM
conditional salvation and God's warnings
Anonymous
Wed Apr 02, 2003 4:53 PM
Re: conditional salvation and God's warnings
carlos
Fri Apr 04, 2003 3:49 PM
Re: conditional salvation and God's warnings
fredman
Fri Apr 11, 2003 10:25 AM
Re: Merits vs. Conditions
carlos
Fri Jun 28, 2002 3:21 PM
Glorification
Anonymous
Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:10 PM
Re: Glorification
carlos
Sun Jul 14, 2002 7:55 AM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
Anonymous
Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:18 PM
Redirection
Anonymous
Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:25 PM
You read between the lines
Anonymous
Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:00 PM
Re: You read between the lines
J_Edwards
Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:38 PM
How a man is saved
Anonymous
Mon Jun 24, 2002 5:08 PM
Re: How a man is saved
J_Edwards
Mon Jun 24, 2002 6:27 PM
What "save yourselves" actually means
Anonymous
Mon Jun 24, 2002 8:55 PM
Josh You Are Soooooo Confused
J_Edwards
Mon Jun 24, 2002 10:30 PM
In reply...
Anonymous
Thu Jun 27, 2002 7:49 PM
Re: In reply...
J_Edwards
Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:04 PM
Re: In reply...
Ehud
Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:47 PM
Resisting God
Paul_S
Tue Jun 25, 2002 1:31 AM
Re: Resisting God
Anonymous
Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:01 PM
Ambiguity and Contradictions
Paul_S
Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:28 PM
Clarification
Anonymous
Fri Jun 28, 2002 8:53 PM
Contradictions vs. Comfort
Paul_S
Sat Jun 29, 2002 4:10 AM
Your comfort must be scriptural
Anonymous
Wed Jul 03, 2002 6:45 PM
Re: Your comfort must be scriptural
lazarus
Thu Jul 04, 2002 12:45 PM
Re: Your comfort must be scriptural
carlos
Sat Jul 06, 2002 2:57 AM
Conditions vs. Performance
Anonymous
Fri Jul 12, 2002 4:44 PM
Getting personal
Paul_S
Fri Jul 12, 2002 6:19 PM
Re: Getting personal
Anonymous
Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:06 PM
Re: Your comfort must be scriptural
Anonymous
Thu Jul 04, 2002 5:21 PM
Re: Your comfort must be scriptural
Pilgrim
Thu Jul 04, 2002 9:39 PM
What else could Saul do...?
Anonymous
Fri Jul 12, 2002 4:43 PM
Re: What else could Saul do...?
Pilgrim
Fri Jul 12, 2002 5:11 PM
Resisting the Holy Spirit
Anonymous
Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:03 PM
Re: Resisting the Holy Spirit
Anonymous
Mon Aug 05, 2002 7:50 PM
Re: Resisting the Holy Spirit
Anonymous
Sat Aug 24, 2002 5:16 AM
Recreated or Born Again?
Wes
Fri Jul 12, 2002 10:10 PM
Re: Recreated or Born Again?
Anonymous
Mon Aug 05, 2002 1:59 PM
Re: Resisting God
lazarus
Wed Jun 26, 2002 4:25 PM
Redirection
Anonymous
Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:13 PM
Re: Resisting God
Tom
Sun Jul 21, 2002 5:59 PM
Re: Resisting God
Anonymous
Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:01 PM
Re: Resisting God
Pilgrim
Mon Aug 05, 2002 4:48 PM
Joshism & Revelation 22:19
J_Edwards
Tue Jun 25, 2002 11:04 AM
Take God's warnings seriously
Anonymous
Tue Jun 25, 2002 3:40 PM
Josh you need to repent
J_Edwards
Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:57 PM
Josh if you are coorect THEN
J_Edwards
Wed Jun 26, 2002 12:54 AM
Re: Josh if you are coorect THEN
Anonymous
Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:03 PM
Re: Josh if you are coorect THEN
J_Edwards
Sat Jun 29, 2002 10:54 AM
Right...
Anonymous
Fri Jun 28, 2002 8:57 PM
Re: Right...
J_Edwards
Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:54 PM
Hebrews 6
Anonymous
Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:52 PM
Re: Hebrews 6
J_Edwards
Mon Jul 08, 2002 10:03 PM
Re: Hebrews 6
Anonymous
Tue Jul 30, 2002 1:32 PM
Re: Hebrews 6
J_Edwards
Tue Jul 30, 2002 8:51 PM
Re: Hebrews 6
carlos
Tue Jul 30, 2002 10:36 PM
Re: Hebrews 6
J_Edwards
Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:53 AM
Re: Hebrews 6
carlos
Wed Jul 31, 2002 7:01 PM
The Grip of God
Anonymous
Thu Jul 11, 2002 11:56 PM
Re: Josh you need to repent
Anonymous
Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:56 PM
Re: Josh you need to repent
J_Edwards
Wed Jul 31, 2002 10:44 PM
Re: Josh you need to repent
Anonymous
Wed Jul 31, 2002 11:31 PM
Josh
Anonymous
Wed Jul 31, 2002 11:43 PM
Re: Josh
J_Edwards
Thu Aug 01, 2002 10:07 AM
Re: Josh
Anonymous
Thu Aug 01, 2002 12:40 PM
Re: Josh
J_Edwards
Thu Aug 01, 2002 1:49 PM
Re: Josh
Pilgrim
Thu Aug 01, 2002 3:38 PM
Re: Josh
J_Edwards
Thu Aug 01, 2002 3:40 PM
Re: Josh
Anonymous
Thu Aug 01, 2002 6:44 PM
Re: Josh
Pilgrim
Thu Aug 01, 2002 8:28 PM
Re: Josh
Anonymous
Fri Aug 02, 2002 6:22 PM
Re: Josh
Pilgrim
Fri Aug 02, 2002 7:07 PM
Re: Josh
Anonymous
Wed Aug 07, 2002 11:33 AM
Re: Josh
Anonymous
Sat Aug 24, 2002 6:20 AM
Re: Josh
Pilgrim
Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:23 AM
Re: Josh
Anonymous
Fri Oct 11, 2002 2:49 PM
Re: Josh
Ehud
Fri Oct 11, 2002 3:19 PM
Re: Josh
lazarus
Sat Oct 12, 2002 10:50 PM
Re: Josh
Anonymous
Sun Aug 04, 2002 10:41 PM
Re: Josh
Anonymous
Thu Aug 01, 2002 6:31 PM
Re: Josh
Pilgrim
Thu Aug 01, 2002 8:12 PM
Re: Josh
Anonymous
Fri Aug 02, 2002 4:37 PM
Re: Josh
lazarus
Fri Aug 02, 2002 5:02 PM
Re: Josh
carlos
Fri Aug 02, 2002 6:55 PM
The foreknowledge and sovereignty of God
Anonymous
Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:17 PM
In my defense...
Anonymous
Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:14 PM
Re: In my defense...
J_Edwards
Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:50 PM
In reply...
Anonymous
Tue Aug 27, 2002 6:17 PM
Re: In reply...
J_Edwards
Tue Aug 27, 2002 7:55 PM
Re: In reply...
Anonymous
Tue Oct 01, 2002 4:35 PM
Re: In reply...
J_Edwards
Sun Oct 13, 2002 1:36 PM
Re: In my defense...
fredman
Thu Aug 08, 2002 3:09 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
li0scc0
Wed Apr 02, 2003 5:21 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
Pilgrim
Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:32 PM
Re: Changing a book doesn't change God
042Dave
Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:10 PM
0 members (),
99
guests, and
16
robots.
Key:
Admin ,
Global Mod ,
Mod
S
M
T
W
T
F
S
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
There are no members with birthdays on this day.