The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Before taken to the woodshed

Marie,

Below are some excerps from Grant's Osborne's commentary regarding numbers in Revelation. Osborne writes,

...Let us consider the meaning of numbers in the book. There are four major numbers from which the vast majority of numbers derive - 4,7,10,12. While some (Seiss, [John] Walvoord, [Robert]Thomas) tend to consider them literally, they are forced to some creative interpretations, for example, regarding the 144,000 who are sealed in [Rev] 7:4-8. Walvoord believes this means that the 12,000 sealed in each tribe are those selected to be God's special witnesses through the tribulation period. But it seems more likely that he numbers in the book are meant symbolically, as was common in ancient apocalypses. Each of the number tends to signify wholeness or completeness throughout scripture, as in the four corners of the earth or the four winds, the use of seven throughout Scripture, or the twelve tribes and twelve apostles . Bauckham has done an extensive study of the language of the book and has shown how often terms and ideas occur four times ( four corners [Rev 7:1;20:8], four winds [7:1]...or seven times (The seven spirits; sevenfold doxologies; seven seals, trumpets, and bowls; seven beautitudes...As Bauckham concludes, all these cannot merely be coincidental...We cannot insist on a literal meaning for the three and half years of the tribulation period or the thousand years of the millenium. They could be literal, but the numbers function symbolic in the book and probably signify a lengthy period of time that is under God's control...Multiples of tens were commonly used in Jewish writings symbolically, and it is likely that this[1000 years] refers to an indefiinite but perfect period of time...a symbol of completeness in the book.

(It must be noted that Osborne is historic Premil and an arminian. I would disagree with both, but I found these section(s) to well stated. G. K. Beale has an extensive treatment; though it would take a long time to type it all up. In any case, Venema's article should be sufficient as I stated in the previous post. I hope no one beats me up for quoting an arminian.[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile[/img])

As far has the preterist approach that you asked about, Osborne writes,
"This approach argues that the details of the book relate to the present situation in which John lived rather than to a future period [most or all details are specific to that period of time, depending on full or partial preterism]. Thus the symbols refer to events in the first-century world as experienced by the original readers, and John is telling them how God would deliver them from their oppressors. There are three basic approaches to the book from within this school of thought...[one of the] option[s] is to take the book as written before A.D. 70 and phrophesysing the fall of Jerusalem as god's judgment upon apostate Israel for rejecting the Messiah and persecuting the church (So Gentry, Chilton). The beast is Rome, the kings from the east are the Roman generals who brought the Romans army from the eastern boundary of the empire to destroy Jerusalem, and Armageddon is the siege of Jerusalem itself...This third approach is least viable...because it limits the universal language of the book( all "peoples, languages, tribes, and nations") to the Jewish people." [Note in some, the chapters 19-22 refer to future, while others say all is fullfilled. As to specific details of the partial-preterist view in Revelation, David Chilton's "vengeance of days" should be sufficient. All comments in brackets are mine]

in Christ,
Carlos