In reply to:

Ron you said "is it not true that if Christ died for every person born from this moment on, the middle east will come to Christ in mass rather soon ?"

The heart and the world is the backdrop for irresistible grace.

All unconverted are of course equally dead but Islam hinders the Gospel - as God has, for His reasons, intended. An unconverted Muslim is a threat to the "visible" Church, ie, you and me, now in the flesh. The false prophet is a different kind of adversary than anti-christian Rome. It does not set out to deceive the elect as Rome does. It does not hide its hatred for Christ and His people and contempt for other non-muslims. Pagan unbelief offers little threat to the "visible" Church.

I fear you belittle your foes of Roman Catholicism and Islam. I would strongly advise you to study the ethos of these lethal weapons from Satans armory before you dismiss them as "More specific appellations for unbelief"

Praise God for the last 450 years and beyond ! And Praise God for the next 450 years which are going to get a lot rougher, if He permits them to happen of course.

How much faith will there be on earth when Christ returns ? [Luke 18:1-8 KJV] I don't know do you ?


You posted my statement, but you haven't addressed. In fact, your response disorients the teleological relationship between those for whom Christ died and irresistible grace. In essence you are suggesting that Christ could not have died for everyone who will be born tomorrow simply because irresistible grace will not likely overcome the powers of Rome and Islam. Of course, when stated this way, you will deny the implications of your post. Notwithstanding, you simply dismiss the fact, by ignoring it, that God draws all those Christ died for. Instead, you have implied that Christ died for those who it seems feasible to you will likely stand a chance of being drawn.

At the very least, you might have dealt with the point that if the church is growing year after year in percentages, it is gaining on the kingdom of darkness.

I'll let you speak the last word. Again though, our eschatology is not derived from popular opinion but from the Scriptures. Finally, even if the amill. position were the biblical one, all amills (who hold to particular redemption and the rules of percentages) should agree with what I have said. My sole point has been that the world as we see it is not at odds with an optimistic view of the Kingdom, and in some very real and tangible ways, it supports it strictly on pragmatic grounds if you will.

In His Grace,

Last edited by chestnutmare; Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:46 AM.