Dear RefBap,<br><br>IRT:<br>"The thing it seems like you're not understanding is that true humility, for example--the kind that is pleasing to God--is good. It's a type of goodness, and without being born from above, we just don't have any of that in us."<br><br>It is true, men do not have any inherently; but it does not mean that one has to be born from above (regenerated, in your lingo) to have it, it comes when God draws a sinner, when God shines His grace on a fallen man, he may decide to humble himself and listen to God or stiffen his neck and stop his ears.<br><br>IRT:<br>"So, when you say: He simply has chosen to save those who humble themselves and hear His voice, you are basically saying that God has chosen to save those who had this goodness in them in that they were truly humble and listened to Him."<br><br>Incorrect. Unless God calls the sinner first, there can be no good in him, including humility; for nothing good is present in our flesh. The big difference in our beliefs is that I believe that one can decide to be humble or not. To clarify, God does choose to save those who humble themselves in response to His drawing and conviction by the Holy Spirit, not those who are just not as proud as their fellows.<br><br><br>In Christ,<br>Josh