First, I want to say I am glad to be here. I first found the-highway through gospelcom.net many years ago. The best article that I have read about the 5 points of Calvinism is posted on your site. http://www.the-highway.com/FivePoints.html
I don’t like to label myself as a Calvinist, since I follow Jesus, not Calvin, although the concept of the 5 points does come from the Word or is used to explain portions of the Word concerning Salvation and God’s Sovereignty.
The reason that I am posting is to see what your collective views are on divorce or defense of marriage. Regardless of what you have read in various church doctrines, I want to know what your biblically discerning opinion is on this subject concerning the material listed below.
My defense of marriage is based on Scripture alone and is exemplified on these 2 web sites.
http://promarriage.com is written by me several years ago in need of some minor revisions.
I am not an Anabaptist, in fact the person that wrote the Anabaptist book has some major misconceptions about Calvinism, but the topic I want to stay focused on is divorce/marriage. I cannot find any errors in his book regarding his views on marriage and divorce in direct relation to the Word of God.
Let us also discuss anything you believe to be errant or contradictory to the Word of God in relation to those papers/books.
First of all, I need to say that I do not speak for anyone here on the board. Only for myself.
I usually stumble over my words, and write (and say) things that I regret when I am seriously cheezed off, so I am not going to thoroughly respond to this post. The first link was not exactly a thorough treatment of this subject.
The second link is very thorough. I have been through this before.. and what I have to say is that you guys are a buncha FREAKS! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/whatsgoingonhere.gif" alt="" /> I'll probably get in trouble for that.. so I'll technically say sorry. Bummer there is no smilie that is sticking out their tongue!
Sounds like a heart condition MHeath. Would you care to share how your viewpoint differs from the scriptures referenced on those pages? or Are you just speaking from emotion rather than logic and literal translation of the Word?
Yes, I am a Jesus Freak, huge DC Talk Fan. Thanks <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I am still cheezed off. If I am going to write anything it won't be now. This is not from emotional circumstances.. but I am emotional about it for sure. I have studied the scriptures for myself on the matter.. though I am not any kind of biblical scholar or super spiritual "jesus freak" like you are <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Yes, this appears to be a highly emotional subject for you. The subject of divorce is so power it often divides families, friends and even entire churches. So I can understand your reluctance to discuss it.
I thank Jesus for my righteousness for without him I have none. I wonder if that is what you meant by "super" spiritual. If it is, then all Christians are made "supernaturally” spiritual by Christ <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
The person that wrote the paper you posted has the problem of assumsion. That is to say he assumes to much. The argument that he is trying to make has already been disproven in the 2 papers that I posted.
Look at the first part of his post. He tries to make his argument that Jesus is allowing for divorce because of adultery as the famous “exception clause” in Matthew 19:9. Jesus is not making that exception or it would contradict other scripture. The person that wrote your paper needs to read the entire context.
This is what I wrote in my paper: MT 19:8 Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.
Historically Moses had to be the Judge over the land long ago, “It was a dirty job sometimes, but someone had to do it”. Along with being the Judge came responsibility and questions of divorce from the people surrounding him. Jesus did not say whether Moses was right or wrong in making the divorce decree, Jesus merely stated the fact that Moses made the divorce decree allowable because the people’s hearts were hard. Jesus then expanded upon that and stated “But it was not this way from the beginning.” In other words, divorce is not in Gods original design for marriage. That reminds me of someone else’s heart who was hard… Exodus 7:13 Yet Pharaoh's heart became hard and he would not listen to them, just as the LORD had said.
MT 19:9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."
Jesus is not agreeing with or allowing divorce in this statement, if fact if you were caught in adultery you didn’t divorce your wife… she would have been stoned by the hardhearted people. Jesus is once again stating a fact here that has historical value. A divorce certificate was not made to benefit the man from divorcing his wife, a divorce certificate was given to the wife to prove that she was not guilty of adultery. Once again, she would have been stoned for adultery, that was their way. John 8:7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."
Sarcastically speaking to the pro-choice (pro-divorce) people, why divorce your wife, when you can just stone her, but be sure to harden your heart good and plenty first.
MT 19:10 The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry." MT 19:11 Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given.
Ah, so true, but the response of so many in the World today is: I can always remarry if this one doesn’t work out.
What would you do with this verse? Matthew 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
No, that is not what I meant. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
As far as discussing it with you, I am also reluctant because you seem to have come here with some kind of agenda. No matter what anyone says to you, you will refute it anyway, so what's the point.
This book actually exposits the Word better than I do and blows the "exception clause" theory out of the water. And why? Because the Word of God in it entirety does not contradict itself, it is the Truth.
so then are you a Calvinist? You believe in the perseverance of the saints? Or are you all trying to say that one that is in what you call an adulterous marriage is bound for hell?
With divorce striking our church, it has escalated to epidemic proportions. Our fellow church members have forgotten the foundation for marriage and covenants made with God concerning this matter.
Even many of our Pastors, Leader, and Elders have lost site of the foundation for marriage. From one side of their mouth they whisper “don’t divorce” and when asked why or what is your foundation, they either have no rock solid reply or are to afraid to answer for fear of how it will shake the church foundation and older members.
Because I believe in Calvinism does not mean I should be complacent. God still calls for repentance from us daily. I am in a constant state of repentance (turning from sin) and (being sanctified) daily until I am Glorified (in heaven).
