Donations for the month of July


We have received a total of "$0" in donations towards our goal of $175.


Don't want to use PayPal? Go HERE


Forum Search
Member Spotlight
Meta4
Meta4
Canada
Posts: 95
Joined: May 2016
Forum Statistics
Forums30
Topics7,532
Posts53,976
Members970
Most Online523
Jan 14th, 2020
Top Posters
Pilgrim 14,224
Tom 4,222
chestnutmare 3,211
J_Edwards 2,615
Wes 1,856
John_C 1,838
RJ_ 1,583
MarieP 1,579
gotribe 1,060
Top Posters(30 Days)
Pilgrim 15
Tom 11
jta 9
John_C 3
Meta4 3
Recent Posts
Dispensational Description
by NetChaplain - Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:58 PM
Coach Wins Case
by jta - Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:16 AM
There is a Fountain ~ William Cowper
by Rick Bates - Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:35 PM
First Work, Sins—Second Work, Sin!
by NetChaplain - Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:09 AM
Nicene Creed Question
by jta - Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:28 AM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
#18786 Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,838
John_C Offline OP
Permanent Resident
OP Offline
Permanent Resident
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,838
By voting for Bush for President, I'm I sinning. There are some who advocate that I'm being unequally yoked by my vote, thus I'm sinning. I don't give them much creedance, but should I?


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
John_C #18787 Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 969
Old Hand
Offline
Old Hand
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 969
Quote
John_C said:
By voting for Bush for President, I'm I sinning. There are some who advocate that I'm being unequally yoked by my vote, thus I'm sinning. I don't give them much creedance, but should I?

Do you mind explaining how voting for Bush (or Kerry, or whomever) is a sin? What rational is being used to determine this?


Peter

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
John_C #18788 Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,224
Likes: 43
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,224
Likes: 43
PREPOSTEROUS...... and if nothing else, a horrid misuse of Scripture. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
John_C #18789 Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:34 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,579
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,579
As we say around here when we're totally stumped by someone or something, "Do WHAT?!"


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 71
Journeyman
Offline
Journeyman
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 71
To explain the view of the one who has posited this (obviously not I!), it's that when we vote we are giving our assent to the proposed agenda of the candidate, signifying our willingness to have that person act on our behalf in Congress (or wherever), therefore the actions taken by said candidate (assuming he wins...how one is "yoked" to a losing candidate I can't imagine) are, in effect, our actions. Thus the yoking together of candidate and voter.

John, have I 'splained it reasonably well, d'you think?


Anne
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 71
Journeyman
Offline
Journeyman
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 71
Let me ask this forum about voting for Bush or Kerry:

Ought it not make a difference to us that both Bush, based upon past experience, and Kerry, because he's RC and liberal, see nothing wrong with avowed Christians participating in, and thereby tacitly promoting, false religions?

As Doug Wilson noted in his blog: "Bush has observed Ramadan in the White House, conducted a polytheistic worship service in the National Cathedral, offered reverence in a Shinto shrine in Japan..." (To be fair, I'm not sure it's quite fair to say that Bush conducted that service in the National Cathedral, though he certainly was a participant, if memory serves.)

There's no doubt in my mind, and I mean none whatever, but that the LORD detests seeing those who claim His name giving respect to religions which deny Him. He is offended by this. Deeply offended.

Do either of those gentlemen intend any harm? Surely not. But one is RC and the other is Methodist, so both hold to the popular "We're ALL God's children" mentality so prevalent today. It's doubtless this conviction, that God loves everyone equally, which dulls their conscience to the offense they give the LORD when they honor God-denying religions with their attendance and attention.

But we know better.

Because I know better, I simply cannot bring myself to vote for either man; the one based upon his actions over the past four years, the other based on common sense.

Trouble is, America is deeply respectful of and addicted to religious syncretism, therefore it probably is just as well that one of the two win. Seeing as how America is Officially Syncretic (is that the word?), and the LORD detest syncretism, refusing to share His glory with another, how can this be reconciled with our faith?


Anne
John_C #18792 Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,856
Wes Offline
Needs to get a Life
Offline
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,856
John,

I don't think your sinning by voting for someone who is less than perfect.

IMHO we put too much emphasis on which candidate is more righteous. Neither candidate can stand up and declare they are righteous and unfortunately their records indicate they both can be very pragmatic. I realize that Bush has made more references to God and to prayer than Kerry but he's also identified himself with pluralism which is contrary to a biblical world view.

When we vote for the President of the United States we're voting for a candidate whom we believe has the best ability to lead this country, uphold the constitution, and promote policies that provide for the welfare of the citizens. Keep in mind we're not trying to find a religious zealot. However, having said that, I still believe we need to decide between which candidate will take the higher moral ground on issues that need to be addressed. Clearly Bush has taken that path more decisively than Kerry.

Remember we're only voting on a man to lead a country/kingdom of this world. He has to be a qualified leader first and foremost and make decisions which promote liberty and justice for all. Remembering that both Bush and Kerry are mere men I pray frequently for them and for all men in positions of authority as we are encouraged to do by Paul in his letter to Timothy. (see I Tim. 2:1,2)

I look at it this way. I'd rather have a qualified athiest doctor perform surgery on me than an unqualified Christian. So whether the President is a Christian or not is not the real issue, the real question that needs to be answered is whether he's qualified to be a good leader, make wise decisions, and uphold the laws of the land. We've had some great leaders in the past. May the Lord guide us in our voting and bless us with good leaders who respect that all authority comes from Him.


Wes


When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
Wes #18793 Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:49 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,060
Old Hand
Offline
Old Hand
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,060
Since this conversation was essentially imported from another discussion board, I would like to quote from what I deem is an excellent response. I have received permission from Dave, aka Zerrubabel to cross post his thoughts on this subject. They express my thoughts much better than I can. . .

Quote
Bush is a flawed Christian man who is trying to straddle the line between being a good Christian and be the President of all Americans. He is not a minister of the Gospel and that is not what he was elected to be. Is he wrong? Of course. Will this mistaken approach harm the country in the next four years? No.

The choice is between Bush and another man who claims to be a Christian. The other man's policies are clearly anti-Christ and downright dangerous for us and our children. If we were electing s national Pastor I would agree with Wilson. We are not. We are electing, primarily, a Commander-In-Chief during war-time. His wishy washy theology is not nearly as bad as the supposed Christians actions and public beliefs. Bush is a struggling Christian. Kerry believes good is evil and evil is good and his record reflects it.

With our children’s future at stake, Supreme Court Justices retiring and a host of other issues, it is clear that Wilson is missing the trees for the forest. I will vote for my children’s future so that they can live to defend the faith not for a dangerous short sighted high-mindedness that is deadly for our country.

We are electing a Commander-In-Chief not a Pope. We have two real choices. One that reasonable Christians who live in the real world can and should vote for. The other is a choice for a weaker country, a weak national defense, governance by the UN, abortion on demand, etc.

The next four years are critical for our children and grandchildren. This Christian version of the Ivory tower mentality is deadly. Those who don't support the better man are, in this case, supporting the other guy by default. It is that simple. The choices are: Do the right thing do the wrong thing or don't do anything. And that is what a throw away vote is - doing nothing. Worse it is helping the worse man.


Here in MA I am supporting a local Republican candidate for State senate because he is pro-life and committed to fighting gay marriage. Oh but he is a devout Catholic! So I should not vote for him since he has some screwed up ideas. Is it better to let the liberal, pro-death, pro-sodomite "marriage" guy win again? SHould I write my wife's name in since her theology is correct,e evn though she has no chance of winning? Is that the right thing to do.

As I see it it is like a soldier in an army ready to go fight the Nazis saying "I will not oppose the Nazis because the general leading us into battle did not speak out against the enemy in a manner that I believe is appropriate and he also said he thinks Jews are not so bad. And since he is a Christian he should know better. No, I think it better to allow my comrades to increase their risk of death by not firing on the enemy who is firing at us. This is my principled stance. So what if the Nazis win and end up killing my family and friends down the road. At least I stood my ground."

We are to fight the battles we are given the best way we can. we fight tomorrow's battles tomorrow. Right now we need to fight to ensure tomorrow. Not throw it away.


Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine
Hiraeth
gotribe #18794 Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,579
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,579
Wow!

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/applause.gif" alt="" />


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,224
Likes: 43
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,224
Likes: 43
TheClingingVine,

My thinking goes along with that of Wes, which I have expressed elsewhere a number of times on this Board and elsewhere. The leader of a country is one who is best qualified for the task. Currently there simply are no "true" Christians who have those qualifications. Thus, it is obligatory for me to vote for the candidate who is most qualified for the task. There is no perfect candidate and never will be; even if there was a "true" Christian man running for office. We are ALL riddled with sin and make erroneous judgments, even when they are done with the best of intentions. A cursory reading of the Old Testament in regard to God's appointed leaders of Israel will clearly make the point. God alone is all wise and without sin. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In His Grace,


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,224
Likes: 43
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,224
Likes: 43
Quote
TheClingingVine said:
As Doug Wilson noted in his blog: "Bush has observed Ramadan in the White House, conducted a polytheistic worship service in the National Cathedral, offered reverence in a Shinto shrine in Japan..." (To be fair, I'm not sure it's quite fair to say that Bush conducted that service in the National Cathedral, though he certainly was a participant, if memory serves.)
First of all, I have to consider the source of the man who has evidently been voicing some criticism(s) concerning Bush and/or Kerry and how a Christian should vote. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes2.gif" alt="" /> Aside from his heretical views concerning the doctrine of justification, methinks what he is espousing is a typically Postmillennial/Reconstructionist worldview; i.e., a "Christianizing" of this earth, something which I obviously find spurious.

The United States is NOT a theocracy; never has been and never will be. Would it be great to have a qualified Christian as President? Perhaps. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scratchchin.gif" alt="" /> However, it would be doubtful if anything the man held to be true could be enacted into new legislation and actually applied. Methinks the Civil War of the 1800's would pale in comparison to the rebellion that would ensue should someone with Wilson's beliefs and agenda were to get into office. [Linked Image]

In His Grace,


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 71
Journeyman
Offline
Journeyman
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 71
...confusion over my viewpoint, for you are not the first to think I'm saying to vote for the most 'Christian' candidate, so to speak.

No, no, no!

What frets me is that the LORD is displeased and dishonored when one of His own participates in pagan worship events...surely we agree on that?

Yet the American president these days tends to have to do just that to demonstrate his tolerance of and repect for all religions, and that is something no Christian should be doing.

Look, Jeff, you ever see me setting off to attend a Shinto service, please grab me and stuff me in the trunk of your car or something until it's over, okay? I would hope I'd never be so lost to what pleases my Savior as to do such a thing, but hey, one never knows.

I could mentally fritz out for a bit.

Just as I'd want you, or any other Christian friend, to stop ME, insofar as it's within their ability, from dishonoring the LORD, I'm not going to aid and abet those men, both of whom claim Christ as their Savior, from doing so by voting to put them in a position where they'd be called upon to do so, especially as I know they would.

Given the present depth of religious syncretism in America today, I'd prefer the president to either NOT be a professed Christian, or be a Christian who will flat out refuse to attend any such God-dishonoring event.

First, because it is detestable in the sight of the LORD.

Second, because it's not good for their souls.

Third, because the president represents ME at those functions, whether I like it or not.

See what I mean?

You needn't agree with me, mind...most people don't, after all...but surely you can see where I'm coming from?


Anne
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,615
Needs to get a Life
Offline
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,615
Quote
Third, because the president represents ME at those functions, whether I like it or not.
My president only "represents" me in the things he "properly" represents me in. As far as my personal beliefs, he nor any other leader, fully represents me--not even my own denominational leaders. If you ever find a president that fully represents "everyone" of your particular views then one thing has happened--you have become president.


Reformed and Always Reforming,
Wes #18799 Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 201
Enthusiast
Offline
Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 201
My thoughts exactly Wes! Well said.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 175
Addict
Offline
Addict
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 175
I have to agree with Wes and Joe on this issue! I believe our duty is to vote for the most qualified man for the job. One who will lead the country to the best of his ability, with the best outcome to the welfare of the it's citizens in mind. We are not voting for a religious leader and cannot judge him as such! If any of us were held up to public exposure in all our actions, such as the president is, would we stand up to such scrutinizing as perfect Christians?

It would be impossible, realistically, to get any legislation enacted, without some compromise. Comparing Bush's record so far against what we know of John Kerry's voting legislation record, gives a good idea of who is better qualified to lead America in a better direction. To vote a "throw away" vote is worse than not voting at all in my opinion, as we must account for all our actions!

Just my 2 cents!

In His Hands,

Ruth

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 105 guests, and 15 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Nana Dadzie Jr., Cliniql, John E, ManassehAmerican, jta
970 Registered Users
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
July
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Popular Topics(Views)
1,350,706 Gospel truth