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Tom
Tom
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#19252 - Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:59 PM Ravi speaks at the Mormon Tabernacle  
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Tom Offline
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Here is something that I found quite interesting.

Ravi speaks at the Mormon Tabernacle

http://www.rzim.org/faqs/newstext.php?id=62

and: Craig Hazen's report on the Mormon Tabernacle event

http://www.rzim.org/faqs/newstext.php?id=63

To quote from one section of this article.

“Ravi Zacharias gave a dazzling message focusing on the person and work of Christ. I think it was the most effective thing he could have done. In my view the rank-and-file Mormons would not have found anything controversial in it. However, those LDS who had a more finely-tuned sense of theology (very rare among Mormons, even in their leadership) would have recognized some pointed challenges on sin, salvation, the nature of God, and the state of the human heart. Almost everyone in the audience clapped even when Ravi mentioned the Trinity--except for the BYU professors who knew it was not in concert with LDS teaching and sat more stoically at that point.

Nevertheless, Ravi received a long standing ovation from every person in attendance when he concluded.”

I would be interested in your thoughts on this.

My first thoughts on this issue, are it surprises me that another religion would invite someone opposed to what they believe to preach the Gospel.

Tom

Last edited by Tom; Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:13 PM.
#19253 - Sat Nov 20, 2004 9:45 AM Re: Ravi speaks at the Mormon Tabernacle [Re: Tom]  
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Tom,

I'm very surprised the Mormans invited Ravi to speak in their tabernacle. However, I'm not at all surprised that he went. After all Ravi has spent his life as an evangelical apologist defending the Christian faith against false religions and atheists.

From the reports you've sighted which come from his website the event was quite outstanding. It will be interesting to see what the Lord does with those who have heard the message about Jesus Christ, the one and only Way to God, the Truth, the Life, and the triune God.

OBTW I've been in the Morman tabernacle years ago and I'd be surprised if it could hold 7000 people. However, I'm sure that those in attendance could hear his message plainly because I don't think there's a place that has better accoustics than the Morman tabernacle.


Wes


When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
#19254 - Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:34 PM Re: Ravi speaks at the Mormon Tabernacle [Re: Tom]  
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I can't think of a better apologist than Ravi to fulfill such a mission. Reminds me of the apostle Paul on Mars Hill in Athens. They also invited him, and as in the case of Ravi they got their ears full. Would to God that more of our apologists spoke from both the brain and the heart!
<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />


gil
#19255 - Sat Nov 20, 2004 5:35 PM Re: Ravi speaks at the Mormon Tabernacle [Re: Tom]  
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I have a Christian friend in SLC who went to that event. She said the audience was 80% evangelical Christian. Well-- would you waste your time going to hear a Mormon? I wouldn't.


Stand Fast, Craigellachie!
#19256 - Sat Nov 20, 2004 8:19 PM Re: Ravi speaks at the Mormon Tabernacle [Re: E_F_Grant]  

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Tom,

Quote
Nevertheless, Ravi received a long standing ovation from every person in attendance when he concluded.

I would be interested in your thoughts on this.

My first thoughts on this issue, are it surprises me that another religion would invite someone opposed to what they believe to preach the Gospel.


If he were truly preaching the gospel to pagan Mormons, would he not be more likely to receive jeers rather than cheers? Acts 17:32

#19257 - Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:34 AM Re: Ravi speaks at the Mormon Tabernacle [Re: Tom]  
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Here's another link of the event a friend just sent me:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/146/11.0.html

What do I think? Apologize to the Mormons?? Huh? I would be interested in reading a transcript or hearing Ravi's actual talk than evening. Seems kind of strange to me. What's this "standing together" group of 50 churches and institutions??? Are we to stand together with the Mormons?? Yeah right.

Another thought - is the Mormon church doing this on purpose to try to get people out there to see that they are really Christians too, like they like to claim?

I wonder if James White will have anything to say on this matter.

#19258 - Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:19 PM Re: Ravi speaks at the Mormon Tabernacle [Re: janean]  
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gnarley Offline
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Sure Janean, lets be true to our "reformed" (in this case an oxymoron if referring to Reformed) faith & preach to no one that have not previously accepted our "faith" --in this case another oxymoron.


gil
#19259 - Sun Nov 21, 2004 2:12 PM Re: Ravi speaks at the Mormon Tabernacle [Re: janean]  
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Jaean,

Dr. White addressed this in his most recent (11/18/04) Dividing Line. I imagine he will comment on it more in the future too.

http://aomin.org/dividingline.html


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
#19260 - Sun Nov 21, 2004 3:59 PM Re: Ravi speaks at the Mormon Tabernacle [Re: MarieP]  
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I agree with what Dr. White had to say, but I found him a little difficult to follow.

Tom

#19261 - Sun Nov 21, 2004 7:59 PM Re: Ravi speaks at the Mormon Tabernacle [Re: Tom]  
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Just wondering.
Does Ravi Zacharias ministries have a statement of faith?
I have listened to him a number of times and from what i have heard he sounds OK, but his ministry web site contains no detailed statement of faith.


Just curious.



Tom


&#931;&#949;&#963;&#965;&#962; &#953;&#962; &#923;&#959;&#961;&#948;
#19262 - Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:42 PM Re: Ravi speaks at the Mormon Tabernacle [Re: 4Ever_Learning]  
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Tom,

I found this statement of faith on Ravi Zacharias website Frequently Asked Questions.

Quote
Frequently Asked Questions
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Ministry Description | Uniqueness of RZIM | Statement of Faith | Mission Statement | Ministry Partnership |


Statement of Faith

We believe there is one God who is infinitely perfect, existing eternally in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We believe Jesus Christ to be true God and in His incarnation to have been true man. He was born of the Virgin Mary, conceived by the Holy Spirit, died for our sins and was raised from the dead for our justification. He is now seated at the right hand of God in majesty, making intercession as our High Priest. He will come again to establish His kingdom of righteousness and peace.

We believe the Old and New Testaments to be the infallible word of God, inerrant as originally given, verbally inspired by God and the complete and sufficient revelation of His will for man's salvation and conduct.

We believe man was originally created in the image of God. Through disobedience and self-centeredness he incurred both physical and spiritual death. Thus, all are now born with a sinful nature, separated from God and can be saved only through the atoning work of Jesus Christ. All who are unrepentant and unbelieving will be lost in a Christless eternity of conscious torment; for those who believe eternity will be spent in God's presence, in His distinct joy and bliss.

We believe the church consists of all those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. They join together for worship, prayer, fellowship, the proclamation of the Gospel and observance of the ordinances of Baptism and the Lord's Supper.

We believe in the second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ as both personal and visible. This is our blessed hope and serves as an incentive for holy living and faithful service.

We believe in the Great Commission to proclaim the Gospel of our Lord to the uttermost parts of the earth.

© 2003 Ravi Zacharias International Ministries. All Rights Reserved.



Wes


When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
#19263 - Sun Nov 21, 2004 11:26 PM Re: Ravi speaks at the Mormon Tabernacle [Re: Wes]  
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Wes,

That's a REALLY general statement and consequently it surely doesn't "define" what the ministry nor the man believes in contrast to anyone else. I don't know the man, nor do I know anything about his ministry. But what I do know is when I read such generic statements of faith it makes me wonder, 1) Why so general a statement? and 2) What theological system, if any, does he hold to be true? The bottom line, I guess, is that the "Statement of Faith" doesn't satisfy my curiosity nor does it gain any assurance that he would be someone I would support.

I'm wondering if anyone has any insight as to why the ministry's beliefs aren't more readily accessible and why he has chosen to use such a "generic" statement to describe what he believes and the foundation upon which his ministry is built? :shrug"

In His Grace,


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simul iustus et peccator

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#19264 - Sun Nov 21, 2004 11:30 PM Re: Ravi speaks at the Mormon Tabernacle [Re: MarieP]  
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Marie,

Could you be so kind as to summarize what James White had to say? The reason I ask is because his "Dividing Line" series is in "Real Audio" format and I don't have nor will I install "Real Player" on my PC. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

TIA


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

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#19265 - Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:06 AM Re: Ravi speaks at the Mormon Tabernacle [Re: Pilgrim]  
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I sure can't speak for Marie, but I listened to it and to tell the truth, his ramblings were so convoluted (IMO) that I have a real hard time remembering anything that I can share! It's not that he didn't have anything useful to say, it's just that he seemed tired and overstimulated and I didn't follow his trail of thought real well.


Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine
Hiraeth
#19266 - Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:42 AM Re: Ravi speaks at the Mormon Tabernacle [Re: gotribe]  
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What I got from it was that one evangelical there (there was some confusion, as evidenced in a letter that Dr. White received, as to whether it was Mouw or not), that said evagelicals were misrepresenting Mormonism. And this premise was not corrected. Dr. White said that he was offended by this, as would be others who regularly speak with Mormons and have written books on Mormonism. He was also astounded that the evangelicals and Mormons sang hymns together.


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
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