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Luke 4 questions #21351
Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:00 AM
Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:00 AM
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John_C Offline OP

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I'm reading Luke for my quiet time and a couple of questions came to mind.

When Jesus was being tempted by Satan in Luke 4, how do we take he led Him up and showed Him all the kingdoms and And he lead Him to Jerusalem? Are these leadings figuratively or what?

Another question, in v 13, he departed from Him until an opportune time. What does opportune time refer? Is it at the garden when Jesus asks take the yoke from me?

One last question. Back in Chapter 3 with the genealogy, the line of Christ comes through David's son Nathan. Do we know more of David except from 2 Samueal 5? Since he is listed just before Solomon, can we determine which of David's wives is Nathan's Mother and would there any significance in knowing that?

Thanks.


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
Re: Luke 4 questions [Re: John_C] #21352
Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:35 AM
Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:35 AM
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When Jesus was being tempted by Satan in Luke 4, how do we take he led Him up and showed Him all the kingdoms and And he lead Him to Jerusalem? Are these leadings figuratively or what?

In his Commentary Calvin remarks:

Quote
It is asked, was he [Jesus] actually carried to this elevated spot, or was it done in a vision? … What is added, that all the kingdoms of the world were exposed to Christ’s view … in one moment … agrees better with the idea of a vision than with any other theory. In a matter that is doubtful, and where ignorance brings no risk, I choose rather to suspend my judgment than to furnish contentious people with an excuse for a debate.

Basically, we are not told because for Luke what was important was not the how but the what that took place.

An interesting question most people ask is, “Who was doing the leading Satan or the Holy Spirit?” Who was the initiator of the conflict? This is a fun one, but we will wait till someone asks.

Quote
Another question, in v 13, he departed from Him until an opportune time. What does opportune time refer? Is it at the garden when Jesus asks take the yoke from me?

Satan was thoroughly defeated and departed for a time. Jesus was attacked at several stages during His ministry not just again in the Garden…. The demons, unbelief, the Jews, the questioning, the attempts on His life, etc. All these were attacks of the devil.

Quote
One last question. Back in Chapter 3 with the genealogy, the line of Christ comes through David's son Nathan. Do we know more of David except from 2 Samueal 5? Since he is listed just before Solomon, can we determine which of David's wives is Nathan's Mother and would there any significance in knowing that?

I do not think we can as we do not have a complete genealogy. However, the family tree introduced by Luke at this point does not, as in Matthew, proceed from father to son, but from son to father, until it finally arrives at Adam, the son of God. Do you agree with Hendriksen who says, "It indicates that Jesus is, in a sense, the Savior of the world, his gracious invitation being extended to all, his grace being sufficient for all, and all who accept him by a genuine faith being actually saved" (William Hendriksen, New Testament Commentary: Exposition of the Gospel According to Luke.)

Re: Luke 4 questions [Re: J_Edwards] #21353
Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:42 AM
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J_Edwards, Okay I'll bite, and Im asking.

An interesting question most people ask is, “Who was doing the leading Satan or the Holy Spirit?” Who was the initiator of the conflict? This is a fun one, but we will wait till someone asks.

I think it had to be the Holy Spirit leading <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />
Neicey

Re: Luke 4 questions [Re: neicey] #21354
Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:49 AM
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neicey said:
J_Edwards, Okay I'll bite, and Im asking.

An interesting question most people ask is, “Who was doing the leading Satan or the Holy Spirit?” Who was the initiator of the conflict? This is a fun one, but we will wait till someone asks.

I think it had to be the Holy Spirit leading <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />
Neicey

So, if you are correct, then the question arises, "Is the Holy Spirit leading Jesus into temptation?" or, ...


Reformed and Always Reforming,
Re: Luke 4 questions [Re: J_Edwards] #21355
Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:54 AM
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neicey Offline
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In the Lords Prayer it said,
Lead us not into temptation,so that means he can
neicey

Re: Luke 4 questions [Re: J_Edwards] #21356
Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:02 AM
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I think the answer is revealed in Joe's question: "Who was the initiator of the conflict."

The initiator of the conflict was Satan. The word tells us that . . ."we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin."

Therefore, I don't think that there is anything amiss in saying that the temptation was real, that it was from Satan, or even that Christ "followed the lead." Often people read this passage and are shocked that Christ would be in such a position, as if it revealed a vulnerability. But Christ, in this passage, reveals Himself as truly God and truly man and One who can truly understand our temptations.


Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine
Hiraeth
Re: Luke 4 questions [Re: neicey] #21357
Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:17 AM
Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:17 AM
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neicey said:
In the Lords Prayer it said,
Lead us not into temptation,so that means he can
neicey


So what do we do when we read James 1? Is the fact that the Holy Spirit leads Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil a "temptation" itself or if not, what is it?

Quote
James 1:12-15 Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him. Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God," for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.


Reformed and Always Reforming,
Re: Luke 4 questions [Re: gotribe] #21358
Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:21 AM
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I wonder if it wasn't a similar situation to Job 1:

Quote
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.
7 The LORD said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it."
8 The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil."
9 Then Satan answered the LORD, "Does Job fear God for nothing?
10 "Have You not made a hedge about him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land.
11 "But put forth Your hand now and touch all that he has; he will surely curse You to Your face."
12 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your power, only do not put forth your hand on him." So Satan departed from the presence of the LORD.


Satan might have thought he took the initiative, but it was part of God's purposed plan.

Perhaps compatibilism would answer this question then. God is sovereign, yet men (and angels) are held accountable for their actions.


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
Re: Luke 4 questions [Re: gotribe] #21359
Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:22 AM
Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:22 AM
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The initiator of the conflict was Satan.

But, Luke 4:1 says, "And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness"


Reformed and Always Reforming,
Re: Luke 4 questions [Re: neicey] #21360
Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:28 AM
Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:28 AM
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Pilgrim Offline

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neicey said:
In the Lords Prayer it said,
Lead us not into temptation,so that means he can

neicey,

I'm not sure I can accept your logic, but your conclusion is worth considering. There is a text which seemingly supports it, e.g.,


1 Corinthians 10:13 (ASV) "There hath no temptation taken you but such as man can bear: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation make also the way of escape, that ye may be able to endure it."



However, there is a passage which speaks directly to the subject which disproves your conclusion and teaches that temptation does not and cannot come from God:


James 1:12-13 (ASV) "Blessed is the man that endureth temptation; for when he hath been approved, he shall receive the crown of life, which [the Lord] promised to them that love him. Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempteth no man:"



What are we to understand then concerning temptation? Well, let's not forget the most basic source of temptation; our own sinful natures. Too often, especially in these current times, people are very quick to accredit and/or justify their sinful actions on the Devil, e.g., "The Devil made me do it!" In doing so, they are in varying degrees denying the total depravity of man and see all evil as being something external to man. However, there is temptation that comes from without and that comes from Satan, who does not possess the attribute of Omnipresence, or one of the myriad fallen angels (demons if you like). These temptations are not done randomly according to their wills but rather they are done according to God's will; His divine and perfect providence, e.g., see the calamity that came upon Job and the temptations he had to endure which came from his friends and even his wife. (Job 2:9) No doubt, Peter's denial of Christ was both the result of his own sinful nature and the wiles of the Evil One. And it is God who willed that it would all take place as it did.

In His Grace,


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simul iustus et peccator

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Re: Luke 4 questions [Re: MarieP] #21361
Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:29 AM
Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:29 AM
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gotribe Offline

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Yes, of course, you are right. God has ordained "whatsoever comes to pass" therefore all things that pass on this earth are according to His purpose! I guess I assumed that we would agree that would be the underlying principle.


Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine
Hiraeth
Re: Luke 4 questions [Re: MarieP] #21362
Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:29 AM
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It is connected somewhat in design, but something more is happening in Luke 4. I am looking for one particular word .... Genesis 3:15 is a great clue.


Reformed and Always Reforming,
Re: Luke 4 questions [Re: J_Edwards] #21363
Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:31 AM
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gotribe Offline

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Touche'


Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine
Hiraeth
Re: Luke 4 questions [Re: J_Edwards] #21364
Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:33 AM
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MarieP Offline
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Christ as the Second Adam


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
Re: Luke 4 questions [Re: gotribe] #21365
Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:39 AM
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Here the underlying principle is actually the answer. Jesus was going to war. God is taking the devil on face to face on purpose. Jesus came to conquer. Genesis 3:15 is here in its now, but not yet "fullness."


Reformed and Always Reforming,
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