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Need some help! #2281
Fri Apr 18, 2003 7:35 PM
Fri Apr 18, 2003 7:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 109
In the Hands of God
ReformedThinker Offline OP
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ReformedThinker  Offline OP
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In the Hands of God
I'm not sure if I should post this here or somewhere else, but I need help (as the subject implies).<br><br>Here is my predicament: All my sentient life (7 yrs. and on) I have been going to a PCA church. Now I have been accepted to a boarding school about an hour and a half from where I live. Now I have to find a new church, and my pastor (who is familiar with the area) informs me that there are no PCA churches in that area. However, there is an OPC church there and I was wondering: how different is OPC from PCA? Any help would be appreciated.<br>


In the midst of your sadness and woe, when you are tormented and afflicted, have comfort! God's will is done.
Re: Need some help! [Re: ReformedThinker] #2282
Fri Apr 18, 2003 8:14 PM
Fri Apr 18, 2003 8:14 PM
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Pilgrim Offline

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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]how different is OPC from PCA?</font><hr></blockquote><p>They can be VERY different or very similar! How's that for "help"? [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rofl.gif" alt="rofl" title="rofl[/img] But seriously, within each denomination you are going to find a <font face="Georgia">w i d e</font mu=Georgia> variety of things. The PCA has allowed its individual congregations to to contemporary extremes, even ordaining Pentecostal men to the ministry. And, the OPC has allowed its congregations to migrate the other direction, e.g., Reconstructionism, paedocommunion, etc. Obviously, there are congregations that haven't gone to either extreme. But, as always, each individual congregation must be judged on its own merits or demerits. In other words, you are going to have to visit each church and go from there. I don't even want to think about being in your shoes at this point. [Linked Image]<br><br>In His Grace,

Last edited by Pilgrim; Fri Apr 18, 2003 10:06 PM.

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simul iustus et peccator

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Re: Need some help! [Re: Pilgrim] #2283
Fri Apr 18, 2003 8:55 PM
Fri Apr 18, 2003 8:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 213
New Hampshire
Jason1646 Offline
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Pilgrim,<br><br>Did you mean to say paedocommunion instead of paedobaptism?<br><br>FWIW - I would say that chances are better one would encounter a solidly conservative and Reformed church in the OPC than the PCA, but like you said, it can vary quite a bit in either denomination.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Jason

Re: Need some help! [Re: ReformedThinker] #2284
Fri Apr 18, 2003 8:55 PM
Fri Apr 18, 2003 8:55 PM
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Posts: 85
Gremantown, TN
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Pilgrim is right that there is a wide range in both the PCA and OPC. I was disappointed a year ago when my wife and I visited a PCA church we attended 20 years ago, with the changes that had occurred.<br><br>You would probably be hard pressed to find another reformed denomination that is as close to the PCA as the OPC. In fact in the "joining and receiving" effort in the 1980's that merged the RPCES into the PCA, the vote to invite the OPC failed by one presbytery. And this was only due to questions concerning the teaching of one faculty member at Westminster Theological Seminary.


Soli Deo Gloria
John Schultz
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Re: Need some help! [Re: Jason1646] #2285
Fri Apr 18, 2003 10:06 PM
Fri Apr 18, 2003 10:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,471
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

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Pilgrim  Offline

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Jason,<br><br>Oh brother...... [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/yep.gif" alt="yep" title="yep[/img], did I write "paedobaptism" instead of paedocommunion? [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/bingo.gif" alt="bingo" title="bingo[/img] I'll go back and edit that after this. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/thanks.gif" alt="thanks" title="thanks[/img]<br><br>I heartily agree; one would should be able to find a more conservative congregation within the OPC than the PCA. I often wonder though, what denomination, if any within Presbyterianism will take over/replace either or both of those in the coming years when they have gone too far? Denominations seem to come and go over time. Maybe the Congregationalists will make a reprise? [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink[/img] That would suit me fine, since I'm a confessing "Presbygationalist".<br><br>In His Grace,


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simul iustus et peccator

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Re: Need some help! [Re: ReformedThinker] #2286
Sat Apr 19, 2003 8:04 AM
Sat Apr 19, 2003 8:04 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 710
.
W
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My advice is that there may be some good reformed Baptist churches (though not as polished [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh[/img]) out there or may-be even a good Bible church[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/yikes.gif" alt="yikes" title="yikes[/img]. The main thing is to find a church that still preaches the TRUE GOSPEL[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/joy.gif" alt="joy" title="joy[/img] and not just makes mention of JESUS a couple times a sermon. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/megashout.gif" alt="megashout" title="megashout[/img]Never never be loyal to a denomination if their just going through the motions [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/weep.gif" alt="weep" title="weep[/img][img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/yawn.gif" alt="yawn" title="yawn[/img][img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/doze.gif" alt="doze" title="doze[/img]. Trying to help, yankee <br><br>[b][color:blue]1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;<br> 2Co 2:12 ¶ Furthermore, when I came to Troas to preach Christ's gospel, and a door was opened unto me of the Lord,<br> Php 1:15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:<br> Php 1:16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:</font color=blue>[b]




Re: Need some help! [Re: Pilgrim] #2287
Sat Apr 19, 2003 8:17 AM
Sat Apr 19, 2003 8:17 AM
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New Hampshire
Jason1646 Offline
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"Presbygationalist". ... ooh, I would be quite interested to hear about that. Could you summarize that in a paragraph? [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/read.gif" alt="read" title="read[/img]<br><br>Sincerely in Christ,<br><br>~Jason

Re: Need some help! [Re: Jason1646] #2288
Sat Apr 19, 2003 8:27 AM
Sat Apr 19, 2003 8:27 AM

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Jason, trust me, he can't. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rofl.gif" alt="rofl" title="rofl[/img]<br><br>Just kidding Pil!!

Re: Need some help! [Re: Jason1646] #2289
Sat Apr 19, 2003 8:41 AM
Sat Apr 19, 2003 8:41 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,471
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Pilgrim Offline

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Pilgrim  Offline

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Okay! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/tongue.gif" alt="tongue" title="tongue[/img]<br><br>The local church polity is that of Presbyterianism; i.e., Elders and Deacons and the committee that decides the color of the curtains in the foyer and the frequency of their change. But there is no hierarchy to whom one can appeal in matters of disagreements. Everything is settled on the local level. There is no "General Assembly" which can decide to throw out historical Christianity for new and "better" theology. There are no Presbyteries who can ignore mandates of the General Assembly and ordain Pentecaustal/Charismagic men and/or women into office, etc. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/evilgrin.gif" alt="evilgrin" title="evilgrin[/img] Yet, there is a bond between like-minded congregations who hold to the Savoy Declaration and pool funds for the purpose of financing schools, rest homes, missionaries, hospitals, etc.<br><br>


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simul iustus et peccator

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Re: Need some help! [Re: Pilgrim] #2290
Sat Apr 19, 2003 8:46 AM
Sat Apr 19, 2003 8:46 AM

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WOW he did it! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/thewave.gif" alt="thewave" title="thewave[/img] Well when I'm wrong I admit it and I was wrong!

Re: Need some help! [Re: Pilgrim] #2291
Sat Apr 19, 2003 6:01 PM
Sat Apr 19, 2003 6:01 PM
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New Hampshire
Jason1646 Offline
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Oh, okay ... so you mean historic Congregationalism then. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]<br><br>Thanks,<br><br>~Jason

Re: Need some help! [Re: Jason1646] #2292
Sat Apr 19, 2003 6:48 PM
Sat Apr 19, 2003 6:48 PM
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Posts: 13,471
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

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[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/yep.gif" alt="yep" title="yep[/img] Edwardian/Owenian Congregationalism........ something which is as scarce as "hen's teeth". [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh[/img]<br><br>


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simul iustus et peccator

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Re: Need some help! [Re: Pilgrim] #2293
Sat Apr 19, 2003 7:20 PM
Sat Apr 19, 2003 7:20 PM
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New Hampshire
Jason1646 Offline
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Yes, rare indeed ... though rumor has it both men changed their preference in favor of Presbyterian government before they went to be with the Lord. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/thinks.gif" alt="thinks" title="thinks[/img]<br><br>~Jason

Re: Need some help! [Re: Jason1646] #2294
Sat Apr 19, 2003 8:28 PM
Sat Apr 19, 2003 8:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,471
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

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Pilgrim  Offline

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Jason,<br><br>I have nothing against Presbyterian polity in principle. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink[/img] My grievances are more with those who have taken advantage of it over the past 100 years. Also, there is an inherent "flaw" in it, IMHO, which has allowed its abuse. And that is that the local congregation is subject to the mandates of the Presbytery and General Assembly. This same abuse is just as evident with the Continental Reformed Churches, e.g., look what has happened to the RCA and CRC over the past 100 years! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/drop.gif" alt="drop" title="drop[/img] No, there is no perfect ecclesiastical form of government. But given a choice, I do lean toward the historic Congregationalism as set forth in the "Savoy Declaration". It seems it is the lesser of two "evils". [Linked Image]<br><br>In His Grace,


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

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Re: Need some help! [Re: Pilgrim] #2295
Mon Apr 21, 2003 6:46 AM
Mon Apr 21, 2003 6:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 213
New Hampshire
Jason1646 Offline
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Pilgrim,<br><br>What you say is indeed true. It seems to me that far too much time is spent on fighting battles within. In the Directory of Church Discipline of a fairly new Presbyterian denomination, they have the following in their introduction:<br><br>A presbytery should be the place in which the Lord’s officers are encouraged and strengthened for the kind of battles which the demands of His ministry place upon them. “Curse ye Meroz… Curse ye bitterly the inhabitants thereof because they would not come to the help of the Lord…” is the testimony of Sacred Writ when God’s people at Meroz refused to help the rest of Israel in the time of trial. Regrettably, this call of the presbytery, to strengthen the hands of God’s officers and churches, all too often has run afoul of its sacred trust and has been an hindrance to ministry, ensnaring good men who must expend time and effort in order to disentangle the coils wrapped about their reputations and callings. <br><br>I think they have picked up on one of the issues at hand here.<br><br>On the other side however, being in a Congregational church, I might also appreciate some of the subtle or not so subtle benefits obtained in having a formal connectionalism, that perhaps Presbyterians could easily forget as their attentions are focused on their particular internal struggles. When it comes to missionary activities or ordination of a pastor, it may be easy to forget how valuable it is to have a plurality of churches within which to work. From a communion of the saints viewpoint, it can be pretty lonely out here. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/surrender.gif" alt="surrender" title="surrender[/img]<br><br>My musings for the day.[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]<br><br>~Jason

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