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#24628 Sat Apr 30, 2005 6:34 PM
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Which heretical belief system, movement, or trend do you believe is the most dangerous or poses the greatest threat to the evangelical church in the next 25-50 years?

Which heresy do you believe is the most dangerous?
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Votes accepted starting: Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:00 AM
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Maybe there should be an ALL OF THE ABOVE option...I had questions on some of the choices. What is the New Perspective on Paul, Open Theism and The Third Wave?


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It's too hard to pick one! I, too, would like to know what Third Wave theology is, if indeed it is a theology.


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This is sort of like asking, so choose which is the worst street drug. Heroin, Crack, Speed, Coke, Meth I mean its like saying okay I'll fight against heroin but speed, meth, and crack I don't see as serious.


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I make no claim that the list is comprehensive and there is undoubtedly some overlap, and nowhere do I say we should only fight one and not others. But determining where the danger is greatest, i.e., which has the most "suppliers," which is easier to "treat," etc., can have some strategic value. Also, I'm sure that not everyone here would necessarily consider all of these views heretical. I feel that all of them are dangerous and threatening, but I have a hard time determining which are the most; that is why I wanted to gauge opinion here --- this is not a scientific poll. Though it taxes my ability to summarize, here's a basic rundown on three that people have asked questions about:

The Third Wave describes a movement that is basically charismatic, but transcends the older Pentecostal (First Wave) and Charismatic (Second Wave) movements in moving beyond traditionally Pentecostal or Charismatic denominations and churches. The movement teaches that all the miraculous sign gifts recorded in Scripture (any quite a few that are not) are for Christians today (prophecy, tongues, healing, etc.) and that the church's evangelism and mission should be accompanied by signs and wonders. Well known advocates include C. Samuel Storms, Wayne Grudem, and Jack Deere.

Charismatic Chaos - By John MacArthur
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/CHAOS6.HTM

The New Perspective on Paul (or the New Perspective on Justification) is a trend or movement primarily within academic scholarship (though it is moving into evangelical pulpits) that significantly modifies or undermines the traditional Protestant/Reformed understanding of Pauline soteriology, especially justification by faith. Phil Johnson summarizes the following points: The New Perspective 1) Claims that the Judaism prevalent in Paul and Jesus' time was not legalistic and focused on outward obedience or conformity to the Law, 2) Claims that Paul's primary theological emphasis was upon racial reconciliation between Jews and Gentiles rather than individual salvation, 3) Claims that the atonement should primarily be understood in terms of Christ's victory over powers and principalities rather than in terms of substitution or propitiation, 4) Claims that justification by faith primarily concerns membership in the covenant community rather than personal salvation or standing before God. The most well known evangelical associated with this movement is N.T. Wright.

New Perspective on Paul
http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/topic/new_perspective.html

A Defense of the Old Perspective on Paul by Phil Johnson
http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/new_p.html

Open Theism is a theological movement that consistently takes Arminianism to the next level. Since perfect foreknowledge is just as incompatible with libertarian freedom as predestination or foreordination, Open Theists claim that God does not know the future exhaustively, especially with regard to the free choices of individuals.

Open theism
http://www.carm.org/open.htm

Click here: openness ligon duncan
http://www.fpcjackson.org/resources/apologetics/Open%20Theism/duncan.htm

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Boanerges said:
This is sort of like asking, so choose which is the worst street drug. Heroin, Crack, Speed, Coke, Meth I mean its like saying okay I'll fight against heroin but speed, meth, and crack I don't see as serious.

Boanerges, you made me LOL. So true, but . . . more importantly, so VERY sad.

I pray that God brings us revival . . . . and soon!

Although, from my pastor's perspective, we live in "a target-rich environment." (i.e. there are a LOT of opportunities in this horribly fallen world we live in to witness to the Truth. Amen?

#24634 Sun May 01, 2005 8:06 AM
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I chose Arminianism because it is a man-centred scheme of salvation that robs God of His glory, yet seems so plausible. I do not hold that the average person with a basically Arminian theology can't be saved (the way the neognostic Calvinists do), but someone who is a wholly consistent Arminian (understanding and embracing all five points) can be no more a Christian than a Hindu is.

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The Third Wave movement is the brain child of C. Peter Wagner. See the attachment for more.

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The New Perspective on Paul is the N.T. Wright Debate. Check out The Great Exchange for further information. As far as the Third Wave see the article I posted here.

Open Theism, also known as free will theism and openness, is the teaching that God does not know all things. That is, He does not know the free will choices that people will make in the future because God either chooses not to know or because the future isn't knowable. Here is an article. A good book here is No Other God, a response to Open Theism by John Frame.


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Which heretical belief system, movement, or trend do you believe is the most dangerous or poses the greatest threat to the evangelical church in the next 25-50 years?
These are like land mines in the woods, the most dangerous at any given moment depends on which one you are about to step on. [Linked Image]


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I chose seeker sensitive/market driven because I believe it sacrifices orthodoxy to "get the numbers up" and tolerates all kinds of heresy to keep the numbers up.


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That is an EXCELLENT response. Can I file that away for future use? I'll give attribution! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />


Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine
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Brad,

As I look at the list you've drafted on heretical religious teachings I'm not sure how I could reduce my answer to only one choice. Obviously different ones will effect different people depending on what they are exposed to. The most dangerous one is the one that leads YOU astray. So I'm thinking that if a person is fooled by one heresy in one part of the world they may not even be bothered by another one which has a stronghold in another part.

Although your list is not exhaustive it represents various teachings that directly contradict the clear and direct witness of the Scriptures pertaining to salvific importance. As to which one will have the most effect on the evangelical church in the next 25-50 years I can only guess. I chose Liberalism/Post Liberalism because today the evangelical church is turning away from the creeds and the confessions leaving sound doctrine behind while looking only for fellowship and an enjoyable worship experience. I could have chosen 5 or 6 others that equally threaten to lead the church astray.


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Although I agree with J_Edwards' statement, I chose Ecumenicism because I have noticed the continued growth of this movement, especially in relatively conservative "evangelical" churches where the primary emphasis has moved away from the Gospel and toward the culture wars, in which Rome is seen as a great ally.


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The New Perspective on Paul (or the New Perspective on Justification) is a trend or movement primarily within academic scholarship (though it is moving into evangelical pulpits) that significantly modifies or undermines the traditional Protestant/Reformed understanding of Pauline soteriology, especially justification by faith. Phil Johnson summarizes the following points: The New Perspective 1) Claims that the Judaism prevalent in Paul and Jesus' time was not legalistic and focused on outward obedience or conformity to the Law, 2) Claims that Paul's primary theological emphasis was upon racial reconciliation between Jews and Gentiles rather than individual salvation, 3) Claims that the atonement should primarily be understood in terms of Christ's victory over powers and principalities rather than in terms of substitution or propitiation, 4) Claims that justification by faith primarily concerns membership in the covenant community rather than personal salvation or standing before God. The most well known evangelical associated with this movement is N.T. Wright.
<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/nope.gif" alt="" />

This is about the craziest thing I've heard in a while. If this nonsense is true then who is saved and how? Crazy...but I still think all of these are equally dangerous.


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I would have a hard time choosing one of those as well, although ecumenicism is definitely a problem of today.

I wonder if part of the problem is determining what are roots problems and what are symptoms of these root problems.

For example, couldn't you argue that Arminianism is a root of the seeker-sensitive problem and the Open Theism problem? How many Reformed seeker-sensitive churches do you know of? Or, how can one be an Open Theist who is not also an Arminian?

And isn't universalism really pluralism taken to its extreme, and isn't the emergent church seeking to find a middle way between pluralism and absolutism?

And couldn't you trace ecumenicism in part to either seeker-sensitivity or pluralism?


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And couldn't you trace ecumenicism in part to either seeker-sensitivity or pluralism?

Liberal ecumenicism, yes, but I don't think conservative ecumenicism.


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I chose the seeker sensitive/Purpose Driven baloney. What good does it do if you pack the church house out every Sunday with lost people, people who think they're saved but aren't, and people who are trying to find their spirituality or whatever? I suppose there are many that will be saved if they hang around long enough. But granting church membership to these folks and allowing them to participate in the decision making processes of the church is a horrendous error.


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I chose, "New Perspective on Paul" mainly because it is a direct attack on the doctrine of Sola Fide (justification by faith alone). However, ALL of those you have listed do the same, albeit to varying degrees; some directly and some indirectly and by consequence of their respective heresy. Remember, that Sola Fide isn't to be narrowly understood in that justification is bifurcated from sanctification but rather Sola Fide includes both the imputation of Christ's righteousness to those who have been given to believe and with that new nature from which faith and repentance flows, the Holy Spirit also works sanctification; i.e., the transformation of one's life to be consistent with that profession of faith. As the Puritans rightly said, "Justification qualifies for heaven. Sanctification prepares one for heaven."


Justification: "If the purity of this doctrine is in any degree impaired the Church has received a deadly wound and brought to the very brink of destruction. Whenever the knowledge of it is taken away, the glory of Christ is extinguished, religion abolished, the Church destroyed and the hope of salvation utterly overthrown. - John Calvin "The Necessity of Reforming the Church" p. 42


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Be my guest, but give credit to my old DI who taught me that lifesaving truth--BullDog Dixon.

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OK, but what's a DI?


Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine
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Kim,

Back in the USAF in the early 70s, the DI was the drill instructor in basic training. I wonder if Joe was in the Air Force?


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Army <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


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<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/Ponder.gif" alt="" /> Oh, drill instructor! (Sometimes it takes me a while to catch up, guys! Part of it's being a girl, most of it's getting old!)


Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine
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Sorry I've been away for a couple of days, but I'd like to thank everyone for their participation and responses so far. I am sympathetic to those of you who felt it important (and perhaps difficult) to determine which heretical ideas are more "root" problems (more basic or causal), and which are more "fruit" problems (more symptomatic or derivative). Our Lord said that a bad tree produces bad fruit and cannot produce good fruit (Matthew 7:17-18; Luke 6:43-4), and I would agree that Arminianism (or Semi-Pelagianism or Pelagianism) is the bad tree or root from which most of the heresies I listed have sprouted, and as one of you asked, "how many Reformed seeker-sensitive churches do you know of?" The Reformed tradition has produced a few small but serious heresies and heretics (e.g., Harold Camping/Depart Out/Campingism, Hyper-Calvinism, Theonomy), but the Arminian tradition is the hands down winner in this department.

My hope is that this poll and the posted responses might provoke more discussion about the connections and relationships between all of these ideas, and reflection about how to address them in various contexts and circumstances (e.g., depending on which one your about to step on). I encourage everyone to say how and why they voted as they did.

I chose the seeker-sensitive movement, not because it represents or embodies in itself the most heretical or dangerous beliefs, but because of its subtlety in insinuating itself into even the most "conservative" churches and pulpits. More than the others, it masquerades most effectively as an "angel of light" (2 Cor. 11:14).

More specifically, I believe the Purpose-Driven (Saddleback) model of Rick Warren is more dangerous than the older "Market-Driven" paradigm of George Barna, or even the "Seeker-Sensitive" (Willow Creek) model of Bill Hybels (there is also growing synergy between Warren and the Emergent Church movement, though some Emergent aesthetes still regard him as a Philistine). The Five Purposes appear far more biblical than all of Barnas graphs and stats, and churches believe they have more freedom to pick and choose between various levels of commitment to the model without "buying into" the whole thing. But the most basic "man-centered" presupposition has already been embraced, and it is all downhill from there as doctrinal entropy and what Alan Gomes calls the second law of theological thermodynamics kicks in.


Soli Deo Gloria,

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Oh yes - you mentioned the Emergent Church. The heresy right up my alley. The theology behind some of it's proponents is interesting. After now reading 4 McLaren books I stumbled upon an aritcle by NT Wright. At that time I had no idea who NT Wright was, but by reading his article I clearly saw a connection with him and McLaren!! And behold NT Wright = NPP!!! Big surprise as McLaren's is so crazy with his theology, how can anyone consider him in the Christian camp?? But low and behold there he is being promoted at my very church!!! People are being blinded these days. It's amazing. Also open theism is seeping into the general Christian public through John Eldredge ("Wild At Heart"). And what about mysticism/contemplative prayer (which comes along with the Emergent Church). That has come in mainly from Richard Foster into the Protestant mainstream. Also the New Age stuff that is so popular has led so many down the wrong path. And this is interweaved into the Emergent Church/mysticism camp also.

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Army <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Army huh? I would have thought you were a jar head Joe. But I suppose not. SEMPER FI! HUA!


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Brad,

I didn't answer your poll because I couldn't find what I believe is the correct answer which IMHO is two-fold.

1. The root of all heresy is the failure to believe in the Word of God. To us, it is the Holy Scripture or the Reformers cry of "Sola Scriptura". All of the trouble and misery of humanity began with Adam and Eve's refusal and unbelief in the Word of God and especially the words, "Thou shalt not eat".

2. Nowadays, it it follows that heresy is the refusal of humanity to believe in the righteous mercy and redemption of God in the Gospel. This is clearly revealed in His Word.
Specifically, this is manifested in the refusal of men to believe that the righteousness of God is IMPUTED (CREDITED) to the believer by the work of Christ alone. (Justification by Faith Alone) All of the other heresies simply follow these two denials. It must be said that the two above fundamental heresies were, and still are, affirmed most horrifically by the Roman Catholic Church.

Denny

Roms 3:22-24


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First let me say that if you've read four books by McLaren you've got a much stronger stomach than me! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/puke.gif" alt="" /> While McLaren's a self-promoting hack, N.T. Wright is a tremendous scholar, and I pray that in time he will see and repent of his errors (of course I pray that McLaren will as well). After reading McLaren's books you deserve a break --- I recommend John MacArthur's Fool's Gold, which critically addresses the New Perspective on Paul, John Eldridge, Rick Warren, and a number of other questionable teachings and trends in contemporary evangelicalism (or just curl up with something good for your soul like Bunyan, Spurgeon, or Piper). Also, if McLaren is being actively promoted at your church, I think you need to consider going to another church. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/flee.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/igiveup.gif" alt="" />

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What I'd like to know is what is it going to take to get all this realigned with Bible? I mean its going to take some kind of phenomenal revival to knock out something that looks so good, packs the pews, AND keeps the offering plates full. Look at all these new members, it can't be bad! Oh, and I'm not talking about just a plain old Spring/Fall kind that you put on the calendar and pray it works out. I'm talking about a Revival where the Holy Spirit takes the roof off the building and blows all the dirt out.

All I can think of is that something like the Reformation needs to happen again only applied to the current Protestant Church.


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I think you are right that the root of all heresy is the failure to believe God's Word <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />; to ask with the Serpent "hath God truly said?" when we know good and well he hath. But while liberals, New Agers, and relativists may openly deny the authority and inerrancy of the Word of God, most of the others that I listed do not consciously do so. Their interpretations of Scripture are strained, distorted, misleading, sinful, and wrong, but ask any of them and they'll say they believe the Bible is God's Word.

I did limit the question to dangers within the evangelical church, so Roman Catholicism in any of its diverse manifestations was not itself an option, although via ecumenicism , pluralism, relativism, the Emerging Church, and the New Perspective on Paul, considerable Roman Catholic influence may be creeping in unawares (or in the case of Evangelicals and Catholics Together, "awares").

I would also not agree that all of the heresies I listed stem from denying justification by faith alone and the imputation of Christ's righteousness. Certainly the New Perspective on Paul denies this, as do most advocates of universalism, relativism, and liberalism. But most Arminians do not consciously reject these (John Miley is an instructive and notable exception), nor do Third Wavers, or Seeker-Sensitive churches. The others are I think somewhat mixed.

You could go even further and say the root of all heresy is just plain sin, but while that is true, I don't think it is very helpful in determining which heresies pose the greatest and most immediate threat (even if they are not themselves the most odious and abhorrent) to the evangelical church.


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Amen. Let us all continue to pray for reformation and revival --- for God to awaken and purify His Church. Amen!

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All I can think of is that something like the Reformation needs to happen again only applied to the current Protestant Church.
If you haven't read this already, you will no doubt find this article most interesting and informative: Revival and Reformation, by Roland Lamb.


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Whew! Man if that don't light your fire your woods wet!


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I voted "Purpose Driven" basically for the same reasons you did. The Purpose Driven model has crept into both Arminian and Calvinist Churches. In fact I know a few Calvinists who have bought into it wholeheartedly. Anyone says anything against it and they will say that we are being nitpicky.

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These are like land mines in the woods, the most dangerous at any given moment depends on which one you are about to step on.

How true!

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Didn't Paul write to a church putting down something like this or a variation?

I bought a book like this when it came out in hardcover, read about three pages and put it up. It was bad. I probably ought to throw it in the creek lest the kids pick it up one day.


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Boanerges writes: SEMPER FI! HUA!

I think that would be a good sixth sola!!! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

SEMPER FIDELIS = Latin for always faithful. Faithful to God, Family and the Church. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />

Just a little correction though Boanerges.... "Hua" is the army. Like in Blackhawk Down. "Hoora" is for the Corp... like in Heartbreak Ridge. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I was Navy.... we just said "aye aye".... like in Popeye. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> the bright side was that we didn't PT alot. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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Just a little correction though Boanerges.... "Hua" is the army. Like in Blackhawk Down. "Hoora" is for the Corp... like in Heartbreak Ridge.

What Gunny R. Lee Ermey led me down the garden path?!?!?! Well maybe I just heard him wrong. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />


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One grunt or snort sounds pretty much like another so don't blame yourself. I liked the Navy because wherever you went there was probably going to be air conditioning. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> (At least in the Hospital where I was).


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“Hua” , “Hoora” , or “aye aye".... you guys watch too much TV. My DI said what he desired to say when he desired to say it. Most of it was not as elegant and inspirational as “Hua.” <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


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And now we're experiencing the most dangerous problem in the church--distraction.

The Company Commander to whom I was subjected in boot camp was capable of more profanities per breath for longer periods of time than should have been humanly possible. We began to think, after a few weeks, that he was really a robot with an air hose hooked into his voice box...

I'm sorry, what were we talking about?


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The Company Commander to whom I was subjected in boot camp was capable of more profanities per breath for longer periods of time than should have been humanly possible. We began to think, after a few weeks, that he was really a robot with an air hose hooked into his voice box...

I'm sorry, what were we talking about?
Actually this topic is very pertinent. Unfortunately it appears you had a Company Commander that used cussing as a way of life. In my circumstance it was a little different. My DI had TWO main things to teach by his language (which he explained near the end of our experience with him). Though one may have questioned his methodology, it kept many of us alive later in life.

First, many military personnel are taken captive during war time. One of the purposes of breaking us down BOTH physically and mentally (using language, etc) was to equip soldiers with the grit to “get thru” interrogations, torture, war, etc. Second, when one gets “use to” the *&%$#@ it actually becomes a valuable teaching technique. Soldiers get use to the *&%$#@ all the time, however when the DIs language suddenly changes then you find yourself listening and learning. You pay attention. See the ______s between the *&%$#@ was really what was important. Actually you will find a “similar" (but with obvious differences) parallel to this technique in the Bible with Hebrew chiasms (see attachment)….

Heresies are taught in somewhat an inverted fashion. Normally a heresy is taught between TWO (or more) truths. In this fashion you do not even see the evil approaching. The cuss words here are in the middle as opposed to the ends, i.e. (God is love. God does not hate. God loves Jesus.).

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Wow. Man that was THE most fabulous merge I have ever seen.


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Ditto. That was amazing! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bow.gif" alt="" />

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Thanks Brad. I just saw your other post on the prayer forum. No need to apologize. Oh yes I considered leaving my church very strongly now over a year ago, but I'm "stuck" there because my husband doesn't want to go yet. And part of it is my fault because I dragged my feet several months in going and talking with our pastors. We have a "pivotal" meeting coming up this Sunday withour sr. pastor. Please pray about this for us because we are discussing with him McLaren and emergent church issues, etc. Thankfully my husband does see McLaren is a heretic. He has said this himself after reading "A New Kind of Christian". Yes it's been hard to "stomach" all of this, but on the up side I have to say to myself there must be a reason for me to be here. It does make me very aware of the garbage out their in Christianity today and the lack of discernment. I've even considered starting my own "blog" site to share my comments on McLaren - however I'm not much of a writer really and I don't know if I really have the time for that. But I am giving my pastors all of the details of things I've seen and read. Maybe they will be turned away from further error. Who knows. All I know is that this has been draining, but on the other hand I am actually reading more Scripture to check on things I know aren't right that I've been reading and so write up some of the comments I've been starting to write against this author and what he's saying in his books. I have the "fools gold" book already and have skimmed through it. There's one of the pastors from his church - Phil Johnson (who also wrote some chapter in 'fool's gold' I think)- who spoke about McLaren, postmoderism and N.T. Wright on their recent (2005) Sheperd's Conference. I order the CDs and they are an EXCELLENT analysis of the error of McLaren. After reading all the books from him I can tell if the criticsm is correct or not. I'm going to give these CDs to my pastors Sunday because they are some of the best criticisms I've heard. I think he and the MacArthur bunch are right on in discerning these errors. I've always liked MacArthur. What I have observed is that authors like MacArthur, Piper, Boice, Packer and such (those I've always liked) are definately in a different boat as all these others (McLaren, et al.) Unfortunatley my church has decided to climb somewhat into the wrong boat.

One interesting about McLaren lately. His latest book discusses hell. I haven't read that one, but in the other books he says he's not sure if heaven and hell are really places like we think they are. He says that our traditional ways of thinking about hell/heaven are probably not right. He elaborates on this in the new book. Crazy huh?? And interestly some of these emergent people out there are even questioning this, but they still won't through McLaren out the window. (this is where our sr. pastor right now). I have a big problem with that.
Should be an interesting "conversation" with our pastor Sunday. I almost cringe every Sunday during the sermon when I hear this words and others - "conversation", "journey", "story",, etc. These are words in emergent that are used a lot. It's almost like a "cult" = with it's own different language. Ok I'll stop now. THanks so much for your support!! I really do appreciate any coming my way. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/coffee2.gif" alt="" />

My kids were just looking at all the funny graemlins. I saw this one and had to put it here. I thought it was appropriate to this post.
Here's what I think of McLaren <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/puke.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/puke.gif" alt="" />

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Janean,
I will certainly be praying for you, your husband, your pastor and your church this week. In the meantime, I was wondering if you have read D.A. Carson's book [i]Becoming Conversant with the Emerging Church[/i]. I know you have read MacLaren's work, but it still might help you organize your thoughts and criticisms more effectively (it would also be good just to hand to your pastor and ask him to read it, then ask him to answer certain definite criticisms and questions the book raises).
There are also a couple of good audio lectures by Carson that you might find useful in a similar way:


What is the Emergent Church?

The Emergent Church: Its Weaknesses


In Christ,

Brad Hammond

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Thanks for the links to the MP3s Brad I've downloaded them and I'll listen to them in my leisure.


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Thanks a lot for the additional resources. Yes I am aware of that new book by DA Carson. I have listened to 3 cds from him about McLaren and Emergent. Not sure if they are some of the same ones you have listed. But he spoke against McLaren and I thought he was a little too kind of McLaren, but at least he's addressing this whole emergent church issue. I probably will get to Carson's book some time.

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Until recently I thought the most dangerous heresy was the Seeker Sensitive Church (Purpose-Driven, Market-Driven, Felt Needs-Driven, etc) but I am not so sure any longer - I think open theism will have a much greater impact in the long run.


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Although my view is purely subjective, I voted for Ecumenism, as in its logical conclusion it leads to many of the other issues stated here.


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Hi picked Relativism/Pluralism. Seems this is reaching out to just about everyone.

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Dispensationalism

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Curt said:
Dispensationalism

Don't go there...!


(Latin phrase goes here.)
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Henry said:
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Curt said:
Dispensationalism

Don't go there...!

I'm just curious about why we shouldn't "go there"?

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Well, whether the broad term "dispensationalism" qualifies as a heresy or not is at least fodder for a new thread.


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Henry said:
Well, whether the broad term "dispensationalism" qualifies as a heresy or not is at least fodder for a new thread.

Hi Henry,

I agree with you. I guess I sort of lost sight of the thread topic when I posted earlier. It occurred to me a few hours after I posted that that was probably the meaning of your original post.

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Henry said:
Well, whether the broad term "dispensationalism" qualifies as a heresy or not is at least fodder for a new thread.

It could make an interesting thread, but I'll stick to your advice and "don't go there".

John

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I had to go with antinomianism, because alot of people I know think they are Christians when in fact their life proves they are not. Open theism would be second, although it's such an ignorant belief it's hard to fathom how anyone could hold to it.


2Pe 1:2 May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
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All are very dangerous, but I chose ecumenism. Many people think here in Hungary that Christianity, Roman Catholicism, Unitarianism, Jehowah's Witnesses etc. are all the same. In fact, ecumenism is a very popular heresy among the leaders of so-called "historical churches" (I mean the Reformed and the Lutheran Church of Hungary). They say, it doesn't matter, what you do - just do it in an ecumenical way!


Élek pedig többé nem én, hanem él bennem a Krisztus; a mely életet pedig most testben élek, az Isten Fiában való hitben élem, a ki szeretett engem és önmagát adta érettem. (Gal 2:20)
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Hello, Bati80,

You're from Hungary? So are my dogs! I have two Vizslas; both bred here in the USA, but Hungarian Pointers, nonetheless!

I have often wished I knew someone who speaks Hungarian. I would love to know the Hungarian words for Ivy and Eve (my dogs' names)

Can you help me out?

Oh, and Welcome to the Highway!


Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine
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Hello, Gotribe,

Yes, I am Hungarian; I live near the capital Budapest. It is a very interesting country: most of the people are Roman Catholics, but there are many Protestants as well. Historians often say, the Reformation saved this country... In fact, my signature is from the old Bible translation "Károli", which is originally made in the 16. century!
About names: is Ivy a nickname? (sorry, but I have never heard it before...) Eve is "Éva" in Hungarian, it is a very common name here (I have two sisters in Christ wearing this name smile )


Élek pedig többé nem én, hanem él bennem a Krisztus; a mely életet pedig most testben élek, az Isten Fiában való hitben élem, a ki szeretett engem és önmagát adta érettem. (Gal 2:20)
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Thanks, Bati80!

Here is a picture of ivy. I think that whatever the Hungarian word for the plant would be what I am looking for since she is named for the plant.

Last edited by gotribe; Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:47 PM.
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OK, I can help now, the Hungarian word for the plant is "Borostyán" (it's not easy to pronounce, but, you know, Hungarian is a very difficult language...)


Élek pedig többé nem én, hanem él bennem a Krisztus; a mely életet pedig most testben élek, az Isten Fiában való hitben élem, a ki szeretett engem és önmagát adta érettem. (Gal 2:20)
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Wonderful! Thank you!!


Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine
Hiraeth
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