The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Question on Ceremonial Defilement

Great, thanks so much.

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At your service!

Covenant, or for whomever else might be able to answer this question for me-

For the ancient Jews having ever consumed any of the forbidden meats/animals, was there a legitimite classification of OT/Biblical "Defilement" in such cases, in its honest term, or were the food laws given in Leviticus simply a case of clean/unclean distinction? I know for a fact that God had to have had a spiritual intent by having listed the creatures He did, yet with the repeated theme running throughout the OT, despite how much Jesus' Own Word about this makes 100% sense once we get to the NT, there would have to be a concrete classification of previous definition prescribing the consumation of such to be only that of uncleaness, not defilement itself.

Is there is any account whereby God said if a person ate this or that unclean animal they were "Officially defiled" in the OT, I would appreciate getting that passage because it would stand in contradiction to Jesus' message concerning such in the Gospels despite the fact Christ's message would make 100% sense over the other, if you know what I mean.

Furthermore, and finally, there is the issue of Daniel 1:8, the mentality of which would stand in near total contradiction to Paul's teachings despite the heart's message/common sense viewpoint regarding such (In favor of Paul, clearly).

Here again, if anyone can help I would definitely appreciate it.

Thanks so much, everyone, for your willingness to help

I believe the Lord's purpose in all the ceremonial laws was to create and maintain a distinction between His people and all other peoples (Lev. 20:24-26). His purpose in both Testaments has always been to separate a people for Himself out of fallen humanity.

To "defile oneself" (my NASB reads "makes yourselves detestable") by not maintaining that distinction between God's people and all others is a slap in His face. It is like saying, "I don't want to be Yours. I want to be like those other people in other nations who worship other gods."


Defilement meant the same thing to Daniel as it did to the ancient Israelites. It was immensely important that God's people maintain the distinction between God's people and others. To live and eat and dress and act as one of them would have been like counting oneself among them.

Olpo,

Robin has done an adequate job of dealing with the "defilement" issue, IMHO, but there is another issue, perhaps far more worthy of focus which I would like to address. That issue is illustrated by the highlighted portions of your post above. That issue is that of "contradiction" within Scripture. IF <---- you sincerely believe that there can be or even are, in fact, contradictions in the Bible, this would of necessity deny the historic Church's doctrine of verbal plenary inspiration; i.e., the Bible is completely inerrant and infallible in all matters of faith (doctrine) and life. Should one come to the conclusion that there is a contradiction in God's inspired written Word, then the problem is with the reader and not the text itself; a lack of comprehension. (cf. 2Pet 3:15, 16; Heb 5:11-14)

So, my question is . . . do you believe that there are real contradictions in the Bible?

In His grace,

Pilgrim, thank you for pointing out my improper wording by having stated "Contradiction" in my post. The mandatory addition would have been "Can appear like" prior to having written that word. I agree with you fully that there exist no contradictions in the Bible-any such assumption lies in the human failure at properly comprehending such, I've learned that myself during this process.

In the matter of the OT food laws whereby clean/unclean distinction had been explicity given, I've found no passage in the OT whereby one would have been deemed as "Defiled" for having consumned any of these creatures, though it would purely be a guess on my part that such could have been possible. Again, however, there is no explicit passage to prove that.

While I can't speak for Him personally, there's not a doubt in my own mind that the animals listed in the overall context would allow for the presumption that there was a spiritual intent behind such having been given.

Comparing Daniel 1:8 to Paul's teachings concerning such may again appear like a valid contradiction from the standpoint of legalism, but that isn't the case when the true message and the intent is taken into consideration.

In the end, coincidentally, so much of it seems to collide in a certain sense, doesn't it, affording one the ability to conclude as Robin did that the overall intent was spiritual and could have been designed to teach us about putting God first in our lives, as well as idol worship, with a definitive need to take into account Christ's own Word to give us the intended meaning/spiritual application, not to mention the example itself found in His own life and His full and complete dedication to the Father.

I think that's the safest way I could ever word this. All considered, I couldn't agree more with what Robin had to say-as well as the peculiar way all of it comes together in Christ in terms of the ultimate example only He Himself could have lived out.

What comes to mind for me is Lev. 11:24-28, 31, 39-40, 43-44.

Dear Kyle,

Methinks you meant to reference Lev. 11:24-28, 31, 39-40, 43-44.

Yes indeed! Editted accordingly. Thanks for the catch! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />

Covenant, thank you for the Scripture verses that you gave me.

I finally see it now.

Thanks again to all of you for the help.

Happy to be of service, brother. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />