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we have a infallible born again spirit ,but our so #38423
Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:25 AM
Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:25 AM
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germany
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the topic is :
we have a infallible born again spirit ,but our soul and body is not infallible!

our born again salvation, also we can know now that we are saved, and also ithis thread will clear up and give a better understanding of OSAS, or like some thinks in the pentecostal belief , and born again, and reborn again backsliding stages.
i would like to start off by quoting some scriptures to build a foundation on so we can witness the teaching of the bible on these things.

1Th:5:23: And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

See shows we have three part to us and we do have a sprit ,soul, and body, as humans.

I have researched that we also have two minds in us and that is a sprit mind and our human mind, which battle against each other because our carnal thinking and the spiritual fight against each other because of how our natural mind was getting program from day one as our perents begin to teach us or those who care for us.
we are programmed in a latter stage to love,hate ,disobey,obey,do evil thing and good things, to accept certain things and reject the other.we learn by other means like tv,media,even music to errors of truth, even sad to say many of our teaching in our churches have gave many errors of life,understanding who God is and who we should be in God.Some are even taught and program to kill in the name of God, and to learn how to disagree with others blindly because of how they could have be brain washed in with the natural mind to make what is wrong right in their natural thinking, so it can cause terorism, and hate,even in a religious form.
Some are programed even to discern the bible by their natural mind and think they have the true answers according to how someone has taught them to be true without any use of their spirits, or the Holy Spirit which has cause a division, and confusion even in the Word of God.
We are brought up in this world to put up our defence and a wall, when someone doesn't agree with your program or way of thinking, and this is a great tool satan and demons are using to cause hate division, and lack of true knowledge at large.
We have the practice of using more of our natural senses in things that those of God so we don't really have the knowledge of truth, so religions can have their place in our society.
But when we really walk in the a born again spirit, we will be using the mind of Christ our other mind which is in us which is perfect , sancified, Holy unto God, and infallible, specially in the perfect things of God because it is a mind of God, and knows all truths.
1Jo:2:25: And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
1Jo:2:26: These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
1Jo:2:27: But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

our spirit mind is perfect Just like the mind of Jesus , and even our born again love was made perfect.
That is why we can love thoses who hate us, and bless them on top of that.
1Jo:4:17: Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Our spirit and Jesus Spirit is one, and if Jesus had a perfect so don't we when we get born again, but when we are not born again we can't have that spirit which we are one with Christ, so confussion comes and even the misinterpretation of what the Spirit is saying unto you.
1Co:6:17: But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
Our spirit is anointed.
1Jo:2:20: But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
Re:2:7: He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

This born again spirit is all Holy and righteous now as can get like Christ is, and also because we have the same spiritual mind of Christ now, we just have to get a new program in how to walk in that mind and recieve the thing of that mind to get programed into our soul which is another process like we had to recieve things in the natural for years to learn to live from others.
Eph:4:23: And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph:4:24: And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

that is why when we die even in doing a sin we , or our real sef which is our born again spirit has the right to go direct to the throne of God perfect and Holy to be able to stand before God without any changes and process like our soul and body neds, and this is why we don't need a purgatory , or some limbo, or a place to get Holy because we are already Holy as can be in our born again spirit, which God looks at only because He is Spirit.
So I don't want this post to be so long I will end it now, but I will talk and show scriptures on the other things I mention.
I know this could be discussed step by step and in love even if you are programed to disagree.

peace


But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Re: we have a infallible born again spirit ,but our so [Re: evangelist] #38424
Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:03 PM
Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:03 PM
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Just a quick reply

Quote
1Th:5:23: And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

See shows we have three part to us and we do have a sprit ,soul, and body, as humans.


Most Reformed affirms the two-fold being of man (Dichotomy) instead of the three-fold being (Trichotomy)

We, two-folders, see man as being body and soul (Matthew 10:28; 1 Corinthians 5:3; 3 John 2).

Wanted you to be aware of that in your expectations in the replies.


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
Re: we have a infallible born again spirit ,but ou [Re: John_C] #38425
Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:21 PM
Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:21 PM
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germany
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Quote
John_C said:
Just a quick reply

Quote
1Th:5:23: And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

So are

See shows we have three part to us and we do have a sprit ,soul, and body, as humans.


Most Reformed affirms the two-fold being of man (Dichotomy) instead of the three-fold being (Trichotomy)

We, two-folders, see man as being body and soul (Matthew 10:28; 1 Corinthians 5:3; 3 John 2).

Wanted you to be aware of that in your expectations in the replies.


So are you assuming the bible contradicts itself?


But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Re: we have a infallible born again spirit ,but ou [Re: evangelist] #38426
Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:24 PM
Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:24 PM
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Quote
evangelist said:

So are you assuming the bible contradicts itself?


Of course not. The Bible is the holy, infallible, inerrant, authorative Word of God.

In these situations we have to marry the various verses to derive at the true teaching. Often, there are only one agreed upon meaning in Christian orthodoxy. In the case between the dichotomy and trichotomy of man, Christians have differ when marrying the various verses. Still, I think the strongest arguments can be made for the two-fold constitution of man. Man has a material part and an immaterial part. How would the differences between the soul and spirit be made?


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
Re: we have a infallible born again spirit ,but ou [Re: John_C] #38427
Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:51 PM
Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:51 PM
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germany
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Quote
John_C said:
Quote
evangelist said:

So are you assuming the bible contradicts itself?


Of course not. The Bible is the holy, infallible, inerrant, authorative Word of God.

In these situations we have to marry the various verses to derive at the true teaching. Often, there are only one agreed upon meaning in Christian orthodoxy. In the case between the dichotomy and trichotomy of man, Christians have differ when marrying the various verses. Still, I think the strongest arguments can be made for the two-fold constitution of man. Man has a material part and an immaterial part. How would the differences between the soul and spirit be made?


The soul is imperfect and the born again spirit is of God and is all new and perfect and infallible.
Our soul are not born of God so it can sin also.


But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Re: we have a infallible born again spirit ,but our so [Re: John_C] #38428
Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:27 PM
Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:27 PM
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Quote
John_C said:

Most Reformed affirms the two-fold being of man (Dichotomy) instead of the three-fold being (Trichotomy)

We, two-folders, see man as being body and soul (Matthew 10:28; 1 Corinthians 5:3; 3 John 2).

Wanted you to be aware of that in your expectations in the replies.



Your right John.

Quote
<font size="4">[color:"0000FF"]Body and Soul--or Body, Soul and Spirit?[/color]</font>

One of our readers has asked: Is a man bi- or tri-partite being? Are soul and spirit synonyms?"

We trust that those who read this will not be frightened away by the strange words. Bi-partite simply means "two-part" and tri-partite, "three-part." The question, therefore, is whether we are created with two parts, body and soul, or with three parts, body, soul and spirit. Thus, too, we have the question whether soul and spirit are the same thing or two different things. (Note: the words, dichotomy and trichotomy, are sometimes used - dichotomy having the same significance as by-partite and trichotomy as tri-partite).

To some all of this may seem very unimportant. In the history of the church, however, it has not been unimportant. The view that man has "three parts" has been used both in the early church and by some modern theologians in defense of various heresies, and for that reason Christian theology has always leaned to the view that man is only "two parts" and that soul and spirit are more or less the same.

For example: the teaching that man is a tri-partite being has been used (by the earlier Semi-Pelagians and by some more recent German theologians) to defend the idea that there is something in man that is not affected by the fall or by original sin. In other words, though soul and body are corrupted, man's spirit, including his reason, his will, and his moral sense were not affected. So, they said, fallen man is able to respond to and cooperate with grace.

Earlier in the history of the church the same teaching was used to deny the full humanity of Christ. He had, so it was said, a human body and soul, but not a human spirit or mind. That was replaced by the divine Word or Mind.

There are many Scripture passages that teach that our spirits are essentially the same as our souls (Eccl. 12:7; I Cor. 5:5; 7:34; II Cor. 7:1) and that we are bi-partite. Man's creation, however, is the clearest proof. There is no indication in the creation story (Gen. 2:7) that man is a tri-partite being.

<span style="background-color:#FFFF00">The only passages in Scripture that could possibly be brought forward as proof of "three parts" are Hebrews 4:12 and I Thessalonians 5:23. The fact, though, that body, soul, and spirit are all mentioned does not necessarily mean that they are three separate things, and in light of Genesis 2:7 they cannot be.</span>

Why does Scripture speak of both soul and spirit? The answer seems to be that these two words look at the same thing from two different viewpoints. The word "soul" emphasizes the truth that man is a rational, moral being, a thinking and willing creature who knows the difference between good and evil, while the word "spirit" emphasizes the truth that these things once made it possible for him to stand in a relationship with God, to know God and to love Him, and do again make it possible through grace.

Rev. R. Hanko


William




Re: we have a infallible born again spirit ,but our so [Re: William] #38429
Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:03 PM
Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:03 PM
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germany
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Do you believe the bible 1Thess than a mans theology about a tri or two part man?


But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Re: we have a infallible born again spirit ,but our so [Re: evangelist] #38430
Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:58 PM
Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:58 PM
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evangelist said:
Do you believe the bible 1Thess than a mans theology about a tri or two part man?


I produced the simplest article I could find on what I believe is true. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bash.gif" alt="" />

HERE is another that I hope suits your fancy.




.




Re: we have a infallible born again spirit ,but our so [Re: evangelist] #38431
Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:38 PM
Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:38 PM
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Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline
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evangelist

What gives you the idea that the answers given so far conflict with the Bible?
The onus is on you to show where and how they conflict with the Bible.
Your statement makes it sound like you believe that once someone uses language outside of the Bible to explain what the Bible means, they are automatically "man's theology" and therefore wrong.
Is this what you believe?

Tom

Re: we have a infallible born again spirit ,but ou [Re: evangelist] #38432
Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:36 PM
Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:36 PM
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Quote
Ihe soul is imperfect and the born again spirit is of God and is all new and perfect and infallible.
Our soul are not born of God so it can sin also.

You don't mind defending this view from Scripture do you? Show us where the Bible teaches that the "born again spirit" is "perfect and infallible".


Peter

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
Re: infallible born again spirit [Re: Peter] #38433
Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:24 AM
Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:24 AM
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This was popular mythology among charismatics when I was among them. It was used to justify speaking in tongues as a "prayer language" (making interpretation unecessary): "My spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful (1st Corinthians 14:14)."

We described it in terms of the "infallible regenerate spirit praying" while the yet fallible and corruptible mind (or soul) did not profit from "praying in the spirit." The solution was to pray and sing "in the spirit, and with the mind also (verse 15)."

This was all based on the false assumption that the one who spoke in tongues couldn't understand his own speech. But both the Greek and the context of 1st Corinthians 14 very strongly imply that edification = understanding (with the mind) and that the goal of even "praying in the spirit" was to edify others.

-Robin

Re: we have a infallible born again spirit ,but ou [Re: Peter] #38434
Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:24 AM
Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:24 AM
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germany
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Boanerges said:
Quote
Ihe soul is imperfect and the born again spirit is of God and is all new and perfect and infallible.
Our soul are not born of God so it can sin also.

You don't mind defending this view from Scripture do you? Show us where the Bible teaches that the "born again spirit" is "perfect and infallible".


2Co:5:17: Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Eph:1:13: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

1Jo:4:17: Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Last edited by evangelist; Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:26 AM.

But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Re: we have a infallible born again spirit ,but ou [Re: evangelist] #38435
Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:45 PM
Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:45 PM
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Quote
evangelist said:
Quote
Boanerges said:
You don't mind defending this view from Scripture do you? Show us where the Bible teaches that the "born again spirit" is "perfect and infallible".


2Co:5:17: Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Eph:1:13: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

1Jo:4:17: Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.


None of these say that we have a perfect, infallible, born-again spirit. And the Holy Spirit is not a human born-again spirit.


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Re: infallible born again spirit [Re: evangelist] #38436
Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:01 AM
Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:01 AM
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Robin Offline
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Quote
evangelist attempts to prove his assertion by quoting:

2Co:5:17: Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Eph:1:13: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

1Jo:4:17: Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.


He is indeed a new creature just as 2nd Corinthians 5:17 says - a creature with two natures (not three) at war with one another (Romans 7:14-8:8 and Galatians 5:17). The spirit is not infallible, otherwise Paul would not have encouraged the Corinthians to "cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God (2nd Corinthians 7:1)."

Ephesians 1:13 describes "sealing" by the Holy Spirit, not regeneration of humans spirits. To seal is to set apart, as in a promissory note - to seal a contract. The seal of the Holy Spirit is the certainty of salvation for those who believe. It does not describe the perfection of the thing sealed. It speaks of the future rather than the present.

1st John 4:17 describes how love is perfected in us by our abiding in God (verse 16), so that we may rest in that love with full assurance through trials and tribulations. It is His love, not some human infallibility that gives us that hope.

None of those verses suggest any such inward infallibility given to the elect before the redemption of our bodies at the last day.

Re: infallible born again spirit [Re: Robin] #38437
Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:41 AM
Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:41 AM
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Robin,

I agree with you overall.

However, technically man has only one nature. Only Jesus has two natures. I think we are confusing nature with the makeup of man being part material and nonmaterial.


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
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