The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Does God speak to His people today?

I got saved in June of 2004. Before that, I had never stepped foot in a church. So I had no doctrine pre-implanted. God lead me to a reformed church shortly after my salvation. With no prior bias, I took to the doctrine pretty well because it was scriptural.

Since that time I've seen in scripture that we are spiritually blind and cannot understand God's Word without Him revealing it to us. We can read a verse many times and years later, God will show us something new in it. So in this sense, there is revelation being made. However, we have a closed cannon and no new revelation will be made as far as additions to God's word.

Also during my walk, God leads me and guides me. Mostly with feeling, that he confirms through others. I always check everything by scripture to make sure it fits God's Word. However, there were 3 occasion when God spoke to me in such a strong manner, that it seemed to me that I heard him audibly, but in my head.

The first was the night I got saved. I was resisting his draw even then. I remember thinking that if I could just resist until the service was over, I could wait another week. About this time I heard "No, do it NOW!". I actually turned and looked over my right shoulder because I thought somebody in the room had said something. There was no one there. Looking back, I've always just said that was God telling me to do it.

Three years later, I was asked to lead a Wednesday night service. God showed up and I preached that devotion. For the next three days, I felt as though I'd be saved all over again. Through prayer, I heard God a second time. He said "What you did the other night, you will be doing a lot more". This was when I was called to preach. ( I have preached twice since, one of the sermons is online. )

If you look in the prayer request forum, I signed up here and asked for prayer at a particularly hard time in my life. I'd had my heart broken worse than it's ever been by a woman. Just as I was getting over her, she calls back. She wanted to stay friends because she enjoyed talking to me and hanging out. I told her I couldn't do it because it was too painful. It had to be everything or nothing. She agreed we would both pray about it and see what God told us to do. I was praying several times a day for probably two weeks about the situation with her when I heard God again. This was obviously consuming my time. He said to me "Stop focusing on her, focus on me and what I've called you to do".

All three of these instances were basically the same feeling as any other time God leads me in decisions, except much more intense and I swore I heard His voice.

Tonight I was sovereign grace singles chatting and when I said I heard God's voice, I thought the stones were gonna come out of my monitor. I was basically told that God does not speak audibly to us anymore. He just talks to us through the Word. And I was told not to base my beliefs on experience, but the Word. Thing is, I study alot since I teach and preach. I've seen nothing in scripture that says God does not talk to us. Yet I see tons where the Holy Spirit is given to us a comforter, and that God calls us individually, and that we could know nothing spiritual if not for revelation from God. Yes, we get it from the Word, but we are unable to understand the Word apart from the Holy Spirit.

Long story short, I was given grief because if God spoke to me audibly, then that would mean it was new revelation which contradicted closed cannon. I disagreed with this and said God speaks to his people all the time. It's usually a whisper which is why a lot of times we don't hear it. However, if we are walking in His ways, we are more at piece and things are quieter and we can hear Him. And that His individual guidance in our lives is not new revelation scripture wise regardless of how He does it. With a voice we hear, or feelings we have to follow because we don't hear His whisper.

So what is the situation here? Is it unbiblical and heretical to say God speaks to individuals in the manner I claimed? Just for guidance and calling? Is there any scripture that addresses this subject?

My biggest problem was the accusation that God speaking to me meant new revelation. I never claimed that or thought that about it at all. The implication was that ANY TIME God speaks, it's new revelation. Is this Biblical?

Any advice on this subject would be appreciated. Especially with any scripture to back it up.

Thanks,
Greg

Greg,

The Bible gives us no reason to expect that God will speak to His children today apart from the Scriptures. Those who teach otherwise need to explain to God’s children how these words "freshly spoken from heaven" can be so necessary and strategic to God’s highest purposes for their lives when their Father does nothing to ensure that they will ever actually hear those words. Indeed, they must explain why this is not quenching the Spirit. Moreover, the promise of such guidance inevitably diverts attention from the Scriptures, particularly in the practical and pressing concerns of life. Let us never underestimate just how serious this diversion really is. In the Bible the church hears God’s true voice; in the Scriptures, we know that He is speaking His very words to us. Advocates of words "freshly spoken from heaven" should beware: By diverting attention from the Scriptures, they quench the Spirit who is speaking therein.

Does God Speak Today Apart From The Bible?


Wes

Living4God,

I would answer your question as a hesitant "yes" God does continue to speak to people today. Here's another way to look at the conflict here as I see it:

I don't believe it's either biblical or consistant with Church tradition for one to be "slain in the Spirit," My father, who is a Pentacostal pastor, believes very much that one can be slain. My mother has had very personal and endearing experiences where she claims she was slain in the spirit. So there is a perpetual conflict in me between what can be proven by theological precident and compelling subjective experiences. This conflict in me will likely never be resolved this side of heaven because I take theology very seriously, and just as seriously I treasure the personal experiences of those I love.

Now back to your situation. The-Highway board has developed the opinion that neither the gifts of the Spirit nor revelation continued past the Apostolic age. They developed this opinion based on a very imposing body of evidence to support such an argument and I respect their opinion, but I disagree...mostly because of very personal experiences where God has spoken to me as He has to you.

I would say though that the Highway's opinion does a valuable service as a restraining influence. The days of Joseph Smith and the formation of the LDS church are a good example of the danger of numerous claims of new revelation. Even today, Mormons believe in ongoing and multiple revelations, much to their theological delinquency. The reason that I say the Highway's stance is a valuable restraining force is because although I believe God still speaks to us today, He isn't loquacious. That is to say, these revelations aren't happening all that often.

Martin Luther also espouses the danger of multiple private revelations:


The danger, I believe, in being dogmatic about denying continuing revelation is that in doing this God is bound by human edicts. The Holy Spirit is described by Jesus as being like the wind, "it blows where it wishes." In my mind, I cannot be absolutely certain that being slain in the spirit is impossible because I cannot justly place that limitation on the Holy Spirit. By the same token, I could not discount your personal experiences either and am forced to accept them at face value. I would simply caution that anything you feel God has spoken to you ought to line up with His character as revealed by Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

There is a Catholic response. Take it for what you will.

Well I can say for certain, that God's speaking to me was in no way new revelation. I appreciate your response Wes, as it mirror what I heard over there. However, I also see the reasoning as solid, but misapplied. Like I said, this is in no way extra biblical revelation we're talking about. It's just the same calling anyone else gets for salvation or preaching, only I heard words in my head with it. It was not, or is not in any way extra biblical revelation. Nor does it encourage me to stay out of the word. It was simply a "this is what I want you to do" type of message. I also agree that the gifts of the Spirit have ceased since Biblical times.

So to clear up, there was no revelation involved, nor was there any "slaying" in the Spirit like the Pentecostal movement. Just a calling with words only I could hear.

I've never given it a thought before because all the objections I'm hearing were never anywhere reality with this. I agree with all the points. Cessation of gifts, closed cannon, no new revelation. I didn't see God speaking to me as a violation of any of those because none of those were happening. Yet, when I say "God spoke to me", people automatically say He couldn't have because if He did, then those would have to be happening.

Is that possible? Can God speak to someone just telling them what to do and it not be new revelation? After all, he's not revealing anything, just commanding something. People talk about being led by the Spirit. But who says that has to be just by feelings and not simple words as well? What is the difference between being compelled and being told? The end result is the same. God's will is communicated to his child.

Yes via_dolorosa, what I heard does line up with God's character and His word. It was a call to salvation, a call to preach, and a command to give Him my undivided attention.

Greg

Living4God,

Ok, I can see that I misunderstood you. Can you see because of the title of your thread how someone might have been confused? Perhaps whether or not the canon is closed is best reserved for another thread, but I believe that God speaks to us personally on our Mt. Sinai with Him after the wind and thunder (distractions) die out. If Elijah is any example, then climbing that mountain is necessary to hear His voice. I have had strange things happen in my life, the most notable of which is when I felt the hand of an angel containing me when I nearly fell off a precipice. It's sort of humbling to realize that God won't fit into our preconceived notions of Him and will, in fact, confound them. Bowing before God's sovereignty is perhaps the greatest honor that can be had in this life and we ought to do it often and habitually.

Living4God, as far as the Scriptural reference for God speaking to us, I would cite:

John 10:27
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

Exegesis: This statement applies to the sheep of Christ in all ages. Being "in Christ" can be defined as listening to and knowing His voice and following Him. I hope this helps.

Greg,

You forget that the Commandments were revealed. If what you say is true, then God revealed directly to you, apart from the Bible, what you are to do in your life. That is by definition "extra-biblical revelation."

I suggest you carefully consider the article Wes pointed out to you, "Does God Speak Today Apart from the Bible?" It touches directly on what you are saying here.

Wes

Although I lean highly toward the view you hold, because in my mind if someone claims to hear from God today, it would seem to be extra biblical revelation. I also don't want to be guilty of letting experience dictate my understanding of what the Word of God says.
I do however have some questions that hopefully I will find out the answers to, if not in this life, in heaven.
One of them is directly related to what Greg said he experienced concerning God talking to him.
I have had a few friends over the years that have had similar experiences, in which I will mention one.
I had a friend who was driving over a three lane bridge; he was driving in the middle lane as it was open to the traffic going his direction. He told me that, although he was traveling all by himself he heard a voice tell him audibly to get in his other lane quick. He did so only to notice that there was a car driving in the wrong lane and if he had not listened to the voice, he would have had a head on crash.
This friend of mine is not someone I believe would make something up like that and he believes it was God that told him to do this.
I now have misgivings about this being God talking, because of reasons I gave above, but I do not doubt that my friend experienced something. As far as I know I don't think he has experienced anything like that before or after.
But that brings the question in my mind, if my friend didn't obey the voice (like Greg did), who knows what might have happened?
I also don't believe that Satan knows the future, so how would he (Satan) know that there was going to be a car in the wrong lane, just moments away?
Which brings up another question, why would Satan save the life of someone? Or in the case of Greg, why would he say those things to him?

Tom

via_dolorosa

You are going to have to do better than that, John 10:27 says nothing about God talking to us audible.
God's sheep hear His voice when the Word of God is preached.

Tom

Kyle,

Could I explore another vein of this discussion? Could it be that what we believe we hear from God are really the voice of angels? I'm prompted to ask this after reading Tom's reply to Wes because it certainly seems possible. Many would not see a difference as angels are messengers that relay verbatim what God has to say. It's easy to mistake the voice of an angel for the voice of God. Samson's parents, after being visited by an angel, thought they would die because they've seen God. Such is the awe that an angel can create. What do you think?

You are more than likely 50% correct in your suggestion as people who hear alleged voices from God are either hearing the voice of FALLEN angels (aka: Satan and/or his minions) or themselves; some type of psychosis, or their own consciences. God has in these last days spoken through His Son and His apostles who were specifically directed by the Holy Spirit to write those things which God chose to reveal to all mankind. The Scriptures are ALL SUFFICIENT and are the completion of God's revelation to man and thus there is no need for additions by alleged voices from heaven.

Hebrews 1:1-4 (ASV) "God, having of old time spoken unto the fathers in the prophets by divers portions and in divers manners, hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in [his] Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds; who being the effulgence of his glory, and the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had made purification of sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; having become by so much better than the angels, as he hath inherited a more excellent name than they."

2 Timothy 3:14-17 (ASV) "But abide thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them. And that from a babe thou hast known the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. Every scripture inspired of God [is] also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness. That the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work."

2 Peter 1:16-21 (ASV) "For we did not follow cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when there was borne such a voice to him by the Majestic Glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased: and this voice we [ourselves] heard borne out of heaven, when we were with him in the holy mount. And we have the word of prophecy [made] more sure; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day-star arise in your hearts: knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of private interpretation. For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but men spake from God, being moved by the Holy Spirit."

In His grace,

Pilgrim,

Without straying into a discussion on sola scriptura, it seems to me that Scripture, being "all sufficient" is not a contradiction to God's private directives in our lives. This believe in God's noninvolvement courts the deist argument, the belief that God simply wound up the clock and let everything go according to a pre-planned course. Moreover, I've never seen a discernable element in the Reformation of belief in a God that doesn't continually interact with His children and provide them with divine guidance. I've heard many Protestants call Catholicism a "dead faith," but we believe in God who is continually involved and active in our lives through the express ministry of the Holy Spirit, giving personal directives to each Christian and divine revelation to the Church as a whole regarding issues that weren't dealt with in Scripture...such as birth control. While I don't think that any sect of Christianity can be called "dead faith" it seems that your theology has God in a museum neatly contained and controllable.

In the beginning verses of Hebrews, the author speaks of "these last days" in referrence to the Church age. From a dispensationalist point of view, we are still in "these last days." The author says that in these last days God has spoken to us through His Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things. I don't see this revelation as being restricted only to the Apostolic age. Particularly as people who revere the Scriptures as Reformationists do, it must be conceded that God gave divine revelation to the councils of Rome and Hippo in deciding canonicity. I'm seeing too many inconsistancies here.

I don't see the practical difference. Whether it is God speaking directly to a person, or God speaking through an angelic intermediary to a person, it remains extra-biblical revelation.

I think it's important to maintain the distinction between revelation and illumination. In the latter, the Holy Spirit calls the written (revealed) word of God to a believer's mind and illuminates it, applying it to that believer's heart and situation. This is His work with the Word upon the elect ("those who have ears to hear"). Just as the Apostle Paul wrote,


Even then the Apostle warned us "not to exceeed what is written (1st Corinthians 4:6)" lest we become boastful on behalf of one with a "revelation."

Revelation has ceased (Hebrews 1:1-2). But the illumination of the revealed (written) word of God most certainly continues today. We can use words like "promptings" or "urging" and any number of different things to describe it, but it always points to Christ by means of the written Word.

-Robin

Tom,

Its sounds like you're still wavering between two positions. You kind of lean in one direction and then have questions about other possibilities. Let me encourage you not to be confused over stories like your friend shared with you. Since you weren't there you don't know what really happened. Your friend obviously believes his report and you believe your friend to be trustworthy. However, we don't have any reason to expect God to speak apart from His Word?

Don't be distracted by reports like this. God has provided us His written word and His Spirit to apply these truths to our hearts. We don't need anything else and shouldn't expect extra-biblical words. People who look for extra-biblical revelation discount the Scriptures and go astray.


Wes

Wes

I would not call it wavering between two views. I just don't know what to make of what my friend experienced. If his was the only time I had heard about such things, I wouldn't wonder at all. But the fact is, I have heard about these kinds of things quite a few times now, Greg's story is just the latest.
However all that said, it isn’t more than just wondering and I am content, if need be to never find out the answer in this life.

Tom