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The revelation of Jesus Christ #3956
Mon Jul 07, 2003 8:39 PM
Mon Jul 07, 2003 8:39 PM

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The revelation has come to you. The revelation of Jesus Christ. He died for you. He bore your sins. He was buried and arose on the third day. He ascended to heaven where He sits at the right hand of God.<br><br>This glorious truth has been told a billion times. In words. On paper. In cyberspace. But how many have believed? How many have really heard? You have heard. By His Spirit, God has revealed this glorious truth to you.<br><br>Yes, the revelation has been given to you. Jesus Christ is Lord. Your knowing is within. You know that God raised Jesus on the third day. This knowing will never be taken away. If all the books on the face of this planet were destroyed tomorrow, you would still know.<br><br>Like a seed, the revelation of Jesus Christ was planted in the good earth --- your heart. It sprouted, it grew, and now it bears eternal fruit to the glory of God.<br><br>The Lord has revealed many wonderful things to you by His Spirit. Within. Where God speaks to man.<br><br>Alex

Re: The revelation of Jesus Christ #3957
Mon Jul 07, 2003 8:57 PM
Mon Jul 07, 2003 8:57 PM
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Alex,<br><br>Don't you read your Bible? or do you rely strictly upon some "inner voice"? Why do I ask this once again? Because this latest message of yours is totally contradictory to what the Holy Spirit has had recorded by inspiration and which is infallible and inerrant.<blockquote>Mark 4:2-12 (ASV) "And he taught them many things in parables, and said unto them in his teaching, Hearken: Behold, the sower went forth to sow: and it came to pass, as he sowed, some [seed] fell by the way side, and the birds came and devoured it. And other fell on the rocky [ground], where it had not much earth; and straightway it sprang up, because it had no deepness of earth: and when the sun was risen, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away. And other fell among the thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit. And others fell into the good ground, and yielded fruit, growing up and increasing; and brought forth, thirtyfold, and sixtyfold, and a hundredfold. And he said, Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parables. And he said unto them, Unto you is given the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all things are done in parables: that seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest haply they should turn again, and it should be forgiven them."<br><br>Matthew 11:25-27 (ASV) "At that season Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou didst hide these things from the wise and understanding, and didst reveal them unto babes: yea, Father, for so it was well-pleasing in thy sight. All things have been delivered unto me of my Father: and no one knoweth the Son, save the Father; neither doth any know the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son willeth to reveal [him.]"<br><br>1 Corinthians 2:11-14 (ASV) "For who among men knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of the man, which is in him? even so the things of God none knoweth, save the Spirit of God. But we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God; that we might know the things that were freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Spirit teacheth; combining spiritual things with spiritual [words]. Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged."</blockquote>Only those who have been given the Spirit at the time that He, the Spirit, regenerates the soul is able to comprehend the mystery of the kingdom and take any interest in Christ. The natural man has no interest nor ability to comprehend the gospel of Christ nor to embrace it by faith, for he has none. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rolleyes.gif" alt="rolleyes" title="rolleyes[/img]<br><br>In His Grace,


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Re: The revelation of Jesus Christ [Re: Pilgrim] #3958
Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:07 PM
Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:07 PM

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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]<br>Don't you read your Bible? or do you rely strictly upon some "inner voice"? <br></font><hr></blockquote><p><br>I do both ... I read my Bible and I listen for the voice of the Lord within.<br><br>How 'bout you ... do you listen for the voice of the Lord within, or do you rely strictly upon your Bible?<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]<br>Only those who have been given the Spirit at the time that He, the Spirit, regenerates the soul is able to comprehend the mystery of the kingdom and take any interest in Christ. The natural man has no interest nor ability to comprehend the gospel of Christ nor to embrace it by faith, for he has none. <br></font><hr></blockquote><p><br>Of course ... no disagreement there.<br><br>Alex<br>

Re: The revelation of Jesus Christ #3959
Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:13 PM
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Alex,<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]I do both ... I read my Bible and I listen for the voice of the Lord within.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Indeed, and my inner voice says your interpretation is wrong. How shall we decide truth? I think I asked this twice in another thread and you didn't answer, so maybe you just missed it somehow.<br><br><br>God bless,<br><br>william

Re: The revelation of Jesus Christ #3960
Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:23 PM
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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]<br>How shall we decide truth?<br></font><hr></blockquote><p><br>In the first century, one could go before the apostles and elders in Jerusalem, and obtain a ruling.<br><br>I know of no similiar body one can go to in this day and age. <br><br>So the only thing a believer can do is maintain an attitude of belief. If two believers, both claiming Divine revelation, disagree, then that's when the agape of God kicks in. That eliminates the oft-used practice of insulting, demeaning, etc.<br><br>Alex<br><br><br>

Re: The revelation of Jesus Christ #3961
Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:25 PM
Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:25 PM
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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]How 'bout you ... do you listen for the voice of the Lord within, or do you rely strictly upon your Bible?</font><hr></blockquote><p>I listen to the voice of the Spirit IN THE BIBLE....... since that is the vehicle which God has ordained by which He has chosen to communicate to mankind. The Bible is the inspired, infallible and inerrant Word of the Living God, by which I am able to discern any "inner voices" as to their origination. The Spirit doesn't obviate language nor grammar, for He is the One Who brought them into existence and provided them so that I may know Him and His will, both for my own life and for the ages to come. Since you continually disdain the grammatical structure and context of the language of Scripture, we know assuredly that any alleged "inner voice" is not of God.<br><br>In His Grace,


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Re: The revelation of Jesus Christ #3962
Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:32 PM
Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:32 PM
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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]If two believers, both claiming Divine revelation, disagree, then that's when the agape of God kicks in.</font><hr></blockquote><p>YOU sir, are the ONLY one who is claiming "Divine revelation"! Everyone else has myriad times affirmed that the written Word of God is the ONLY source of "divine revelation" given to man, now that the Canon has been closed. (Heb 1:1)<br><br>In His Grace,


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Re: The revelation of Jesus Christ #3963
Mon Jul 07, 2003 11:15 PM
Mon Jul 07, 2003 11:15 PM

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Hey Alex let me ask you if I came to you on the street and I said to you: "I've been reading my bible and listen to the inner voice of the Holy Spirit and He's been telling me about Jesus. And He told me that Jesus wasn't really the God-Man he was just the first-born angel who assumed the powers of God. He (Jesus) really was the brother of Lucifer and He showed us 'a way' to God. Oh and he wasn't really physically raised just spiritually." Knowing as we do that the Apostles and elders are now dead what would you say to me if I told you this? Or would you just open up that agape love and come together with me and fellowship with me?

Re: The revelation of Jesus Christ #3964
Mon Jul 07, 2003 11:19 PM
Mon Jul 07, 2003 11:19 PM

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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]I know of no similiar body one can go to in this day and age.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Well, you just stepped outside orthodoxy again. I do know a ruling body, Gods Word. Call me stupid, but I thought it was complete and infallible. I was under the influence it was the final measuring stick of truth.<br><br>Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (KJV)<br><br>It seems that the scriptures are the final authority in matters of religion and salvation and truth. <br><br>2Ti 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (KJV)<br><br>Study what? Your private interpretation of your private revelation? Hardly. I stay within the pale of orthodoxy when I state "Sola Scriptura and nothing less". I ask you to re-consider your beliefs and return to Christendom.<br><br><br>God bless,<br><br>william<br><br><br>

Re: The revelation of Jesus Christ #3965
Tue Jul 08, 2003 7:53 AM
Tue Jul 08, 2003 7:53 AM
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Alex,<br><br>You were asked a number of times... "When two Christians disagree on something God has revealed to them how shall we decide the truth?"<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]You replied:<br><br>So the only thing a believer can do is maintain an attitude of belief. If two believers, both claiming Divine revelation, disagree, then that's when the agape of God kicks in. That eliminates the oft-used practice of insulting, demeaning, etc.</font><hr></blockquote><p>When you reply, "maintain an attitude of belief" what are you referring to? Belief in what, since that is being disputed?<br><br>Certainly we want to be loving to our brother and we also want to restore them if they have stumbled by following false teaching. In your opinion is it possible to correct someone without insulting or demeaning them? I think it is. As a matter of fact there is a proverb that tells us "rebuke a wise man and he will love you for it." (Prov.9:8)<br><br>Doesn't true love go after the one who has wandered away and seek to restore them? Isn't that why Jesus came? How did He talk to the Pharisees and the Saducees who were the religious leaders in their day? Doesn't true love rebuke, reprove, teach, and train in righteousness? Is there no room for Christians to do this in your theology?<br><br>Scripture tells us that in the last days there will be many false prophets and antiChrists. How can you know who is a false prophet since you don't limit yourself by the written Word of God?<br><br><br>Wes<br>


When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
Re: The revelation of Jesus Christ #3966
Fri Jul 11, 2003 12:10 AM
Fri Jul 11, 2003 12:10 AM
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Go Purdue! So guess at it alre...
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Alex,<br><br>I read your post carefully and am afraid that even before reading the responses to it my reaction was the same as the others'. If all the books in the world were destroyed, including the Holy Writ, I would be back to Romans 1, having no knowledge of God other than that given in Creation, which does not save. God gave His Word in written form that generations might know of the Lord Christ and have reliable, constant information about Him, so that, hearing the Word from it preached we might believe and come to faith. And God Himself has preserved this Word down through the millenia. We are incredibly rich...may it never be taken from us!<br><br>It stands as a witness against us if we read and fail to heed it: that heeding being given by the power of the Holy Spirit to God's elect. The Spirit speaks through that written and spoken Word to the hearts prepared to hear it. May God be praised for His surpassing mercy!


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Re: The revelation of Jesus Christ [Re: E_F_Grant] #3967
Fri Jul 11, 2003 5:46 AM
Fri Jul 11, 2003 5:46 AM

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Eleanor,<br><br>I certainly agree with you that we are tremendously blessed to have these inspired writings available to us. Over the years, the Lord has used them to teach me many things.<br><br>Your view, however, ignores historical fact. Down through history even to the present day a significant percentage of true believers in Jesus Christ have not had the Bible, as we know it, available to them. I find it inconceivable that God would not teach them and guide them into all the truth as He does us.<br><br>Blessings,<br><br>Alex<br>

Re: The revelation of Jesus Christ #3968
Fri Jul 11, 2003 7:14 AM
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They had the Torah though, on many scrolls, which foretold the Coming of the Messiah, and they had the few copies of the Scriptures until they were assembled in to canon, which were memorised and preached to them and circulated. Before that, they had the Prophets. This is certainly a good deal more than the revelation of Creation. Why would God give a command to preach the Word (2 Timothy 4:2) without a Word to preach?<br><br>I know of no 'true believer' who believes without having a Word to hear fro confirmation of what he has received, even in the Middle East, where revelation has come to entire villages through dreams--but then CONFIRMED by a subsequent exposure to Scripture.


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Re: The revelation of Jesus Christ #3969
Fri Jul 11, 2003 7:24 AM
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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Your view, however, ignores historical fact. Down through history even to the present day a significant percentage of true believers in Jesus Christ have not had the Bible, as we know it, available to them. I find it inconceivable that God would not teach them and guide them into all the truth as He does us.</font><hr></blockquote><p> Far from true.<br><br>In contesting the heresy and blunders of the Sadducees (part of history), the Scripture records Christ saying, [color:blue]Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God</font color=blue> (Matt 22:29). Jesus repeatedly admonished the Pharisees because they made their tradition on a equality with the Word of God. You, in a similar vein, are equating your (and others) “voices,” “instructions,” “thoughts,” “revelations,” and “commands,” et. al., with the Word of God. But, Christ condemned the Sadducees because they were endeavoring to distort the very foundation of truth by equating their traditions to the Holy Word of God. Christ declared to them that they were [color:blue]making the word of God of none effect through [their] tradition</font color=blue> (Mark 7:13). Since, Scripture alone is inspired, it alone is the definitive authority and it alone is the final judge of all else, including your “voices,” “instructions,” “thoughts,” “revelations,” and “commands”, et. al.<br><br>God decreed that we are not to add to His Word. The Bible gives us a commandment, saying, [color:blue]Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar</font color=blue> (Prov 30:5-6). This demand shows categorically that it is God's Word alone that is pure and uncorrupted, not your “voices,” “instructions,” “thoughts,” “revelations,” and “commands”, et. al. Coupled with Proverbs, our Lord’s sound, lucid, but illuminating statement sounds its trumpet cry, saying, [color:blue]To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. </font color=blue> (Isa 8:20). The reality is this: God’s written word alone is inspired! It and it alone is the sole rule of faith. It is NOT your “voices,” “instructions,” “thoughts,” “revelations,” and “commands”, et. al. that you believe still come…..[color:blue]for there is no light in them</font color=blue>.<br><br>The very phrase "It is written" means exclusively, wholly, solely, fully, and absolutely recorded, and not hearsay, as compared to your “voices,” “instructions,” “thoughts,” “revelations,” and “commands”, et. al. The command to believe what “is written” means to believe only the pure word of God. It separates from all other sources the whole of what a man is to believe. <br><br>God decisively told us not to add to nor take away from His Holy Word. John remarks,<br><br><blockquote>[color:blue] Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.</blockquote></font color=blue> God’s Word is unconditionally sufficient in itself (Psa 119:160). The total sufficiency of Scripture is summarized by Paul, saying, [color:blue]All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works</font color=blue> (2 Tim 3:16-17). For final truth and authority, all that we need is the Scripture.<br><br>Please read: DOES GOD SPEAK TODAY APART FROM THE BIBLE? by R. Fowler White.


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Re: The revelation of Jesus Christ #3970
Fri Jul 11, 2003 4:21 PM
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Once again I find your dilemma frightening. I'll ask once more in hopes of a proper answer;<br><br>when your revelation and my revelation differ or even oppose, how do we know which is truth?<br><br>I know you want to answer this because you have to to be taken seriously. Otherwise, you have no authority at all.<br><br><br>God bless,<br><br>william


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