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John_C
John_C
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#43261 - Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:38 PM Ordo Salutus extended  
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Peter Offline
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1. Election (God's choice of people to be saved)
2. The gospel call (proclaiming the message of the gospel)
3. Regeneration (being born again)
4. Conversion (faith and repentance)
5. Justification (right legal standing)
6. Adoption (membership in God's Family)
7. Sanctification (right conduct of life)
8. Perseverance (remaining a Christian)
9. Death (going to be with the Lord)
10. Glorification (receiving a resurrection body)

Now that is typically more than what is the normal golden chain but would you say that is correct?


Peter

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
#43262 - Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:11 AM Re: Ordo Salutus extended [Re: Peter]  
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yep That appears to be accurate enough although #2, the outward means by which the Gospel of Christ is conveyed, could be other than the verbal proclamation and audible hearing of it, no? Could it not also be through the reading of the Gospel? The efficacious spiritual/inner call which is of the Spirit uses both these means. Oh, and it could also be by touch as well... braille. grin


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#43276 - Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:11 PM Re: Ordo Salutus extended [Re: Pilgrim]  
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This may be a 'nit' question, so shoot me.

In Romans 8 the 'golden chain' starts with foreknew and predestined. Now election is equated with foreknew, but what is it's relation to predestined?


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
#43280 - Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:19 PM Re: Ordo Salutus extended [Re: John_C]  
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God elects and then determines (predestinates) those elected to be saved in Christ.


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#43282 - Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:12 PM Re: Ordo Salutus extended [Re: Pilgrim]  
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Well granted all those other methods should be included as well as semaphore, ASL, flannel graphs, and Morse code ( Really who uses that anymore?). But I draw the line at interpretive dance that is just wrong.


Peter

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
#43283 - Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:16 PM Re: Ordo Salutus extended [Re: Peter]  
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Part two:

Which portions of this list is exclusively monergistic? Which is synergistic?


Peter

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
#43286 - Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:43 AM Re: Ordo Salutus extended [Re: Peter]  
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Pilgrim Offline
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Pilgrim  Offline

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1. Election (God's choice of people to be saved)
2. The gospel call (proclaiming the message of the gospel)
3. Regeneration (being born again)
4. Conversion (faith and repentance)
5. Justification (right legal standing)
6. Adoption (membership in God's Family)
7. Sanctification (right conduct of life)
8. Perseverance (remaining a Christian)
9. Death (going to be with the Lord)
10. Glorification (receiving a resurrection body)

Synergistic
4. Conversion - Although repentance and faith are the fruit of the new nature in regeneration, the turning from sin and seeking after holiness (repentance) and the exercising of that faith, aka: believing, are done by the sinner.

7. Sanctification - Similar to #4 conversion, it is the Spirit Who works in the believer to do good works, put off sin, etc., but it is the believer who actually does the good works and resists sin. (Phil 2:12, 13)

8. Perserverance - One can think of this as part of sanctification.

I believe all the rest can be safely said to be monergistic; the sole working of God without the participation of the individual.


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#43290 - Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:26 PM Re: Ordo Salutus extended [Re: Pilgrim]  
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Peter Offline
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Okay thank you there is more coming to be surde.


Peter

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
#43303 - Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:43 PM Re: Ordo Salutus extended [Re: Peter]  
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Peter Offline
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So what would an Arminian ordo salutus look like?


Peter

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
#43305 - Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:18 PM Re: Ordo Salutus extended [Re: Peter]  
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There can be no ORDO salutus since man has a totally "free-will", nothing is certain until someone makes up their mind and actually follows through by exercising their will. Even God Himself cannot know who is going to be saved in a consistent Arminian/semi-Pelagian theology and thus no predestination is possible. All that can be said by an Arminian is:

1. God loves you (everyone equally)
2. Christ died for you (everyone equally)
3. The Spirit calls you (everyone equally)
4. Man decides for Jesus and is thus saved (perhaps, perhaps not depending if one holds to eternal security)


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