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ReformedDisciple
ReformedDisciple
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Ordo Salutus extended #43261
Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:38 AM
Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:38 AM
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Peter Offline OP
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1. Election (God's choice of people to be saved)
2. The gospel call (proclaiming the message of the gospel)
3. Regeneration (being born again)
4. Conversion (faith and repentance)
5. Justification (right legal standing)
6. Adoption (membership in God's Family)
7. Sanctification (right conduct of life)
8. Perseverance (remaining a Christian)
9. Death (going to be with the Lord)
10. Glorification (receiving a resurrection body)

Now that is typically more than what is the normal golden chain but would you say that is correct?


Peter

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
Re: Ordo Salutus extended [Re: Peter] #43262
Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:11 AM
Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:11 AM
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Pilgrim Offline

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yep That appears to be accurate enough although #2, the outward means by which the Gospel of Christ is conveyed, could be other than the verbal proclamation and audible hearing of it, no? Could it not also be through the reading of the Gospel? The efficacious spiritual/inner call which is of the Spirit uses both these means. Oh, and it could also be by touch as well... braille. grin


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Re: Ordo Salutus extended [Re: Pilgrim] #43276
Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:11 PM
Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:11 PM
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This may be a 'nit' question, so shoot me.

In Romans 8 the 'golden chain' starts with foreknew and predestined. Now election is equated with foreknew, but what is it's relation to predestined?


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
Re: Ordo Salutus extended [Re: John_C] #43280
Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:19 PM
Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:19 PM
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Pilgrim Offline

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God elects and then determines (predestinates) those elected to be saved in Christ.


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simul iustus et peccator

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Re: Ordo Salutus extended [Re: Pilgrim] #43282
Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:12 PM
Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:12 PM
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Peter Offline OP
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Well granted all those other methods should be included as well as semaphore, ASL, flannel graphs, and Morse code ( Really who uses that anymore?). But I draw the line at interpretive dance that is just wrong.


Peter

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
Re: Ordo Salutus extended [Re: Peter] #43283
Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:16 PM
Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:16 PM
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Peter Offline OP
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Part two:

Which portions of this list is exclusively monergistic? Which is synergistic?


Peter

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
Re: Ordo Salutus extended [Re: Peter] #43286
Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:43 AM
Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:43 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,513
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Pilgrim Offline

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1. Election (God's choice of people to be saved)
2. The gospel call (proclaiming the message of the gospel)
3. Regeneration (being born again)
4. Conversion (faith and repentance)
5. Justification (right legal standing)
6. Adoption (membership in God's Family)
7. Sanctification (right conduct of life)
8. Perseverance (remaining a Christian)
9. Death (going to be with the Lord)
10. Glorification (receiving a resurrection body)

Synergistic
4. Conversion - Although repentance and faith are the fruit of the new nature in regeneration, the turning from sin and seeking after holiness (repentance) and the exercising of that faith, aka: believing, are done by the sinner.

7. Sanctification - Similar to #4 conversion, it is the Spirit Who works in the believer to do good works, put off sin, etc., but it is the believer who actually does the good works and resists sin. (Phil 2:12, 13)

8. Perserverance - One can think of this as part of sanctification.

I believe all the rest can be safely said to be monergistic; the sole working of God without the participation of the individual.


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simul iustus et peccator

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Re: Ordo Salutus extended [Re: Pilgrim] #43290
Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:26 PM
Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:26 PM
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Peter Offline OP
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Okay thank you there is more coming to be surde.


Peter

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
Re: Ordo Salutus extended [Re: Peter] #43303
Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:43 PM
Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:43 PM
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Peter Offline OP
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So what would an Arminian ordo salutus look like?


Peter

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
Re: Ordo Salutus extended [Re: Peter] #43305
Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:18 PM
Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,513
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

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There can be no ORDO salutus since man has a totally "free-will", nothing is certain until someone makes up their mind and actually follows through by exercising their will. Even God Himself cannot know who is going to be saved in a consistent Arminian/semi-Pelagian theology and thus no predestination is possible. All that can be said by an Arminian is:

1. God loves you (everyone equally)
2. Christ died for you (everyone equally)
3. The Spirit calls you (everyone equally)
4. Man decides for Jesus and is thus saved (perhaps, perhaps not depending if one holds to eternal security)


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simul iustus et peccator

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