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The Doctrines of Grace #52130
Sat May 21, 2016 11:08 PM
Sat May 21, 2016 11:08 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 119
Ga. U.S.A.
Mckinley Offline OP
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After a very brief leave from Facebook, I have returned, and with that venture, the attacks on the doctrines of grace continue... It behooves me each time to see how those who are called by the name Christian, are so quick to make claims against John Calvin and Calvinism without doing a even cursive study of its truth,... Has anyone found this battle to be still raging on for the sovereignty of God in salvation and the will of fallen man even more so as we are stumbling to bring forth His truth in the Spirit of love?... Just a thought..

Last edited by Mckinley; Sat May 21, 2016 11:09 PM.

"A man may be theologically knowing and spiritually ignorant." STEPHEN CHARNOCK
Re: The Doctrines of Grace [Re: Mckinley] #52131
Sun May 22, 2016 7:42 AM
Sun May 22, 2016 7:42 AM
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chestnutmare Offline
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YEP!!!

I think that facebook and social media in general has opened up a pandora's box for the spreading of heresies of every sort. As I am more familiar with facebook, I can say that there are many who actively seek those who are "unwary" 2Tim 3:6 "that creep into houses, and take captive silly women laden with sins, led away by divers lusts, 7 ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." They appear to be very learned and gain for themselves, a following.

As people who by nature hate God, perversion of the truth comes most naturally. Consider what is said of them in Romans 1.

Romans 1:25 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness; 19 because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse: 21 because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves: 25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.


The Chestnut Mare
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by frost.
- - - -JRR Tolkien "Lord of the Rings"
Re: The Doctrines of Grace [Re: Mckinley] #52132
Sun May 22, 2016 11:18 PM
Sun May 22, 2016 11:18 PM
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ATulipNotADaisy Offline
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McKinley, I feel your pain. The battle is on..... everyday, all day. Keep standing, brother.

Re: The Doctrines of Grace [Re: ATulipNotADaisy] #52133
Sun May 22, 2016 11:53 PM
Sun May 22, 2016 11:53 PM
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Mckinley Offline OP
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Thank you for the much needed prayer, and I do pray that He gives me much patience and more of His Spirit to show by way of His sacred Word, the truths of the doctrines of grace,.. its a battle indeed as shown by the above testimony of Chestnutmare, giving God His glory in salvation and showing its glory manifested in our life is all I pray for now,.. SDG.


"A man may be theologically knowing and spiritually ignorant." STEPHEN CHARNOCK
Re: The Doctrines of Grace [Re: Mckinley] #52134
Mon May 23, 2016 6:14 AM
Mon May 23, 2016 6:14 AM
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Pilgrim Offline

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This is a perennial battle that has been going on since soon after the Fall. The record of fallen man creating for himself an idol, either created out of physical materials or residing secretly within his foolish imagination is clearly exposed in the Bible, especially in the Old Testament. An idol is simply 'self-worship' (cf. Rom. 1) whereby the creature dethrones God (an utterly stupid and impossible proposition which Satan also tried and lost miserably. Jonathan Edwards called the Devil the biggest blockhead that ever lived.) So, what does idolatry have to do with the antithesis between biblical doctrines of grace, aka: Calvinism and all its enemies? Men always and everywhere by nature echo the words of William Ernest Henley, "I am the Master of my fate. I am the Captain of my Soul." The unregenerate man sometimes preens himself in being kind and gracious to "god" by sharing in his destiny (fate), which is known as synergism/synergistic salvation, whereby God allegedly does his "part" and man does his "part" in saving his soul (cf. There Are Only Two Religions in the Whole World by John Reisinger).

The basic problem is one with two distinct but inseparable parts:

1) The refusal to acknowledge the biblical doctrine of Original Sin; inheritance of a totally corrupt nature and the imputation of guilt. This doctrine is the root of the doctrine of Total Depravity, which teaches that fallen man is TOTALLY helpless and without hope unless God personally does a sovereign work of regeneration in one's dead soul.

2) The refusal to acknowledge the doctrine of the Sovereignty of God; that God is BOTH sovereign in power AND authority, i.e. God can do anything and all that He so desires/wills. NOTHING exists nor continues to exist nor happens which God hasn't foreordained from all eternity for the purpose of glorifying Himself who is worthy of all worship by all creatures.

Now, is it any wonder that men (generic) rail against true Calvinism which is to be distinguished from all its modified forms by corrupt men? "In the beginning, God created man in His own image. And every since that day, man has been trying to return the favor." rolleyes2


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Re: The Doctrines of Grace [Re: Mckinley] #52136
Mon May 23, 2016 7:22 AM
Mon May 23, 2016 7:22 AM
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Robin Offline
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Yesterday my own pastor described regeneration / justification as monergistic (God acting upon a soul), and the ongoing work of sanctification as synergistic ("cooperative," where the elect sinner's "part" is God-enabled obedience).

In my own discussions with others (whether on Facebook, Diaspora, or other forums), the distinction is often blurred and uncertain; with monergism rejected on the basis that Man must actively participate even in his own justification.


-R

Re: The Doctrines of Grace [Re: Robin] #52137
Mon May 23, 2016 10:21 AM
Mon May 23, 2016 10:21 AM
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Pilgrim Offline

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Originally Posted By: Robin
Yesterday my own pastor described regeneration / justification as monergistic (God acting upon a soul), and the ongoing work of sanctification as synergistic ("cooperative," where the elect sinner's "part" is God-enabled obedience).

In my own discussions with others (whether on Facebook, Diaspora, or other forums), the distinction is often blurred and uncertain; with monergism rejected on the basis that Man must actively participate even in his own justification.


-R

Yeh, there has been a ton of discussions on Facebook, if one would choose to call them that, regarding Sanctification; monergistic or synergistic. Historic Reformed men and the Reformed confessions and catechisms have overwhelming believed in and defended synergistic sanctification. One would have to either reject regeneration, or redefine regeneration to hold to monergistic sanctification. BOTH sides are in agreement re: Regeneration and Justification, i.e. it is monergistic. One will find that many (most?) of those who hold to monergistic sanctification lean toward antinomianism and/or assert that a regenerated sinner is still "totally depraved", which is indefensible. Of course, a redefinition of regeneration is sometimes used to defend that position which again is contrary to historic Calvinism and the Reformed confessions and catechisms. There are quite a number of articles on The Highway that expound and defend synergistic sanctification. grin


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Re: The Doctrines of Grace [Re: Pilgrim] #52138
Mon May 23, 2016 12:16 PM
Mon May 23, 2016 12:16 PM
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Ga. U.S.A.
Mckinley Offline OP
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Excellent reply as always, it is so clear, and I posted the link and my prayer is that the Holy Spirit will awake some by way of these classical articles...


"A man may be theologically knowing and spiritually ignorant." STEPHEN CHARNOCK
Re: The Doctrines of Grace [Re: Mckinley] #52140
Mon May 23, 2016 6:28 PM
Mon May 23, 2016 6:28 PM
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Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline
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Others have spoke to this topic very well, but I would like to touch on a part of the topic that I don't think has been touched on.
If you are anything like me, some of the things that are said against the doctrines of grace upset you. I have found it hard at times not to react in the flesh. In other words sometimes I may respond in truth, but I forget the love part.
Although it is very true that responding in love isn't ignoring sin. Never the less, when we respond in the flesh, as though what they said is against us, not our thrice Holy God, we actually show that we don't really understand what we say we believe.
It is for that reason, I have found that before I respond to one of these attacks, I am best to examine my heart first and pray for a while before responding, if I end up responding at all.
A few times, when I actually do this, when I respond, sometimes I am reminded how I was blinded from the truth, before The Lord revealed the Doctrines of Grace to me. After that, my response is a lot different than what it would have been had I just responded without examining myself and praying.
Tom

Last edited by Tom; Mon May 23, 2016 6:33 PM.
Re: The Doctrines of Grace [Re: Tom] #52142
Mon May 23, 2016 7:49 PM
Mon May 23, 2016 7:49 PM
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Pilgrim Offline

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An antedote to reacting to someone who disparages the truth, whatever it is, as if the person was attacking you, which does happen at times, is to simply deal with the SUBJECT being disputed. Keep it on an intellectual level and this has the effect of avoiding making things personal.

Now, the subject of "speaking in love" has been discussed here on numerous occasions. It is my view, based upon Scripture that "love" is NOT necessarily that which is spoken in a soft, gentle tone. nope IF that were the case, then the Lord Christ can be charged with sin, e.g., John 8:44. Does anyone really think that the Lord Christ spoke in that example in a gentle, soft voice? And how about just one example from the apostle Paul in Galatians 5:12 where the word in the KJV is "cut off", the ASV "go beyond circumcision" which are both euphomisms for the Greek word apokopto (to amputate, mutilate, emasculate). Can we say that the Lord Christ or Paul was 'unloving' for what they said? Absolutely not!! Love takes many forms and it is wisdom given by the Spirit that determines how one is to respond to individuals in any particular circumstance.

Oh, and what does one make of David's words here:

Quote:
Psalms 139:19-24 (ASV) "Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: Depart from me therefore, ye bloodthirsty men. For they speak against thee wickedly, And thine enemies take [thy name] in vain. Do not I hate them, O Jehovah, that hate thee? And am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: They are become mine enemies. Search me, O God, and know my heart: Try me, and know my thoughts; And see if there be any wicked way in me, And lead me in the way everlasting."


And lastly, there is a well-known quote of Martin Luther, not that he is perfect by any means, but I believe he spoke truth when he wrote:

Quote:
I am not permitted to let my love be so merciful as to tolerate and endure false doctrine. When faith and doctrine are concerned and endangered, neither love nor patience are in order.... when these are concerned, neither toleration nor mercy are in order, but only anger, dispute, and destruction - to be sure, only with the Word of God as our weapon.

Notice that Luther rejects any notion of physical violence but also rejects a 'casper milk toast' type of approach in serious matters. BigThumbUp


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Re: The Doctrines of Grace [Re: Pilgrim] #52146
Tue May 24, 2016 1:32 AM
Tue May 24, 2016 1:32 AM
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Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline
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Pilgrim
I agree with you concerning what acting in love is at times.

Quote:
It is my view, based upon Scripture that "love" is NOT necessarily that which is spoken in a soft, gentle tone. nope IF that were the case, then the Lord Christ can be charged with sin, e.g., John 8:44. Does anyone really think that the Lord Christ spoke in that example in a gentle, soft voice?


Perhaps I didn't explain myself very well concerning what I meant. I wholeheartedly agree with your above quote.
I was however, talking about first focusing on my own heart and praying, before I responded. That way, I am not as tempted to respond in a sinful manner.

Quote:
An antedote to reacting to someone who disparages the truth, whatever it is, as if the person was attacking you, which does happen at times, is to simply deal with the SUBJECT being disputed. Keep it on an intellectual level and this has the effect of avoiding making things personal.


This is a great example, but I know personally that my mind needs to be stayed on the Lord if I don't want to let pride enter the picture. Based on my discussions here and elsewhere, many have the same problem.

Tom


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