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Hedonism #53527
Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:45 AM
Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:45 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 146
Ga. U.S.A.
Mckinley Offline OP
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Mckinley  Offline OP
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I have just read an article by Desiring God with the title of the article ''Lament Like a Christian Hedonist''.. I have not done a long study of the term ''Hedonist'' or its relationship to biblical Christianity,.. I have found comments here on the Highway that have already been expounded on the ideology,.. and with that note, I wonder why this is still being a prevalent stance with John Piper's ministry despite those who have addressed it like Mr. Peters in at least 2 articles to my knowledge .. The faith seems to be daily being bombarded by those who claim to be Calvinist and Reformed in their theology but continue to leave for man centeredness and have no real likeness of those from whom this great theology has its essence. http://desiringgod.cmail20.com/t/j-l-utidjlt-ntjfkukt-t/

Last edited by Mckinley; Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:47 AM.

"A man may be theologically knowing and spiritually ignorant." STEPHEN CHARNOCK
Re: Hedonism [Re: Mckinley] #53529
Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:13 AM
Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:13 AM
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Lake Park, Georgia USA
Robin Offline

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For a Christian, there should be no greater joy than in being a "living sacrifice," which is our reasonable service to God - and thus "hedonistic" (?) because of the happiness it brings to the inner man.

But the whole man-centered, "pleasure-seeking" thing (even if that pleasure is "good") is really bothersome to me. We should be seeking His pleasure rather than our own.

Re: Hedonism [Re: Mckinley] #53532
Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:27 AM
Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:27 AM
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NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

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Piper's proposition of "Christian Hedonism" is summed up by him as, "God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him." (cf. Christian Hedonism).

I find this most obnoxious and contrary to the basic doctrine of God found in Scripture. It is CHRIST, the incarnate Son of God in whom God is most glorified. God is most glorified in Himself.
Quote
Hebrews 1:1-3 (ASV) God, having of old time spoken unto the fathers in the prophets by divers portions and in divers manners, hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in [his] Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds; who being the effulgence of his glory (emphasis mine), and the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had made purification of sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

To even suggest that man, particularly fallen man brings the most glory to God when we are 'most satisfied in Him' is ridiculous. God further glorifies Himself in His works of creation, The heavens bring forth the glory of God (Ps 19:1) and in His redemption of sinners, (2Cor 4:6,15).


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Re: Hedonism [Re: Mckinley] #53535
Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:38 PM
Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:38 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 146
Ga. U.S.A.
Mckinley Offline OP
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''effulgence''.. a word I don't think I have run across before,.. but I do thank you for it!...


"A man may be theologically knowing and spiritually ignorant." STEPHEN CHARNOCK
Re: Hedonism [Re: Mckinley] #53536
Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:48 PM
Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,985
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

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Pilgrim  Offline

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Originally Posted by Mckinley
''effulgence''.. a word I don't think I have run across before,.. but I do thank you for it!...

Effulgence is brightness taken to the extreme. You may be dazzled by it, stunned by it, or even overcome by it. Usually used to refer to the sun or some other mega-star, effulgence can also be used more figuratively.


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Re: Hedonism [Re: Pilgrim] #53537
Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:54 AM
Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 481
Macomb Michigan
J
JesusFan Offline
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Thought that God was most glorified in the Cross of Christ, and in the person Of Jesus?

Re: Hedonism [Re: JesusFan] #53541
Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:12 AM
Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:12 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
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NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

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Originally Posted by JesusFan
Thought that God was most glorified in the Cross of Christ, and in the person Of Jesus?

scratch1 Isn't that what I said HERE?


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Re: Hedonism [Re: Pilgrim] #53562
Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:32 AM
Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:32 AM
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Macomb Michigan
J
JesusFan Offline
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God needs no other creatures to bring Him glory, does he?

Re: Hedonism [Re: JesusFan] #53566
Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:42 AM
Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:42 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,985
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

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Pilgrim  Offline

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Originally Posted by JesusFan
God needs no other creatures to bring Him glory, does he?

Is this a question you are asking because you are unsure of the answer? scratchchin


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Re: Hedonism [Re: Pilgrim] #53570
Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:23 PM
Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 481
Macomb Michigan
J
JesusFan Offline
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Not sure!

Re: Hedonism [Re: JesusFan] #53571
Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:54 PM
Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,985
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

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Originally Posted by JesusFan
Not sure!

Why not reason this out based upon the biblical doctrine of God? Is God all glorious in and of Himself? Was God less glorious before He created anything? Can any creature increase or decrease God's glory?


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Re: Hedonism [Re: Pilgrim] #53574
Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:07 AM
Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 481
Macomb Michigan
J
JesusFan Offline
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Macomb Michigan
God did not have to do anything in order to be glorious, since he is God, he is fully sufficient within Himself.... Unlike some who would seem to hold to somehow God "needed" to create us?

Re: Hedonism [Re: Robin] #53585
Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:51 PM
Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,997
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline
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Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Robin
I think your words sum up why I disagree with Christian Hedonism.
Yet quite a while ago, when I was trying to get to the bottom of the issue. I e-mailed a Reformed theologian whom I have grown to respect over the years concerning the issue. I would rather not say who that theologian is. However, he basically says that he is tired of the whole issue, because what people are accusing Piper of is a misunderstanding at best. I tried to find out more, but I did not get a response.

Tom

Re: Hedonism [Re: Tom] #53586
Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:28 PM
Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,985
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

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Pilgrim  Offline

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Originally Posted by Tom
Robin
I e-mailed a Reformed theologian whom I have grown to respect over the years concerning the issue. I would rather not say who that theologian is. However, he basically says that he is tired of the whole issue, because what people are accusing Piper of is a misunderstanding at best. I tried to find out more, but I did not get a response.

1. You didn't say what your "Reformed theologian" thinks people are misunderstanding.
2. You didn't say what your "Reformed theologian" bases his defense of Piper's proposition is?
3. Just the title "Christian HEDONISM" should raise flags.
4. Save your "respect" for someone else. grin


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Re: Hedonism [Re: Pilgrim] #53604
Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:20 AM
Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 481
Macomb Michigan
J
JesusFan Offline
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Macomb Michigan
Maybe the Theologian requested not to be named though?

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