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#56676 Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:44 PM
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Tom Offline OP
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Over the last year, as more information comes to the light, I have come to believe that the vast majority of the Church in North America (Canada and the United States); are bowing the knee to the government; rather than obeying the Lord.

Unfortunately this seems to include a lot of the Calvinist and Reformed community. Including to a certain extent a few Churches I love and respect; usually for a faulty understanding of passages like Romans 13.

I have not always been a fan of John MacArthur on a number of issues; however on this particular issue he seems be one of the Church leaders that are actually obeying God over the government.
I thought I would share an interview of John MacArthur on not only this issue, but other major issues of this day.



Tom





Tom #56677 Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:01 PM
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It makes me sick. I’ve woken up a few folks who are open to it.... here’s my diatribes. It’s my political hat. I’m nicer in real life.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/11/covid_testing_weve_been_duped.html



https://www.americanthinker.com/blo...iction_will_anthony_fauci_spin_next.html

If a church makes vax or mask a condition of worship, I’m out!

In my home church, they request masks from the door to my seat - I can live with that for now, and I remain silent for now. I’ve been charitably patient. We have brains to discern. There are no experts that I will bow down to.

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Christ, not Cesar is the head of the Church.

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My home Church does not have a building, so we are in a strange predicament. We used to rent a local theater for our services and that worked very well. However, for the last year we have been at the mercy of government regulations. We rent when we can, with 50 per service (as per regulations). However, just when you think things are good the government turns around and closes those options.
We are forced to meet via YouTube every Sunday and I understand we are going to be able to rent for the next month or so, as per regulations.
My pastor is rightly addiment that these virtual meetings, do not meet the Biblical qualifications of regular Lord's Day services. Yet, their hands are tied, because of our situation.
That of course does not mean that the elders are not regularly making sure health and government officials are made aware of the biblical mandate of in person Lord's Day services. Also, that how it stands the government is going against the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

We are following closely as the story unfolds in Alberta Canada with Grace Life Church and Pastor James Coates, who was recently released from prison after spending a month and a half behind bars. He is scheduled for trial May 4th, and contrary to the beliefs of some it is not just him that is on trial, it is the entire Church in Canada, that is on trial. I might add, a specific section from the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms is on trial.

Up here in Canada, we have already lost some of our rights. For example, it was ruled by the Supreme Court of Canada, that all Educational Institutions must if they want to stay accredited remove all material from their Constitutions anything that they deem to be against things like premarital sex, homosexual sex etc... Unfortunately, many Christian Educational Institutions have given into these demands.
I understand that in the USA if the Equality Act is passed, they will soon be joining Canada on that front. I hear this could effect the Church soon; but I have not been able to confirm this.
My understanding is if that occurs, if a Pastor preaches the plain reading of Scripture on passages such as Leviticus 18:22; 1 Cor. 6:9-10; etc... and someone is offended, they may be sued.

As an addendum to this, I recently listened to a John MacArthur sermon, where he said that Grace Church has won all their court cases to date; mainly based on US Constitutional grounds. However, he also said that he could care less about the US Constitution because as far as he is concerned depending on it is idolatry. I can understand in a sense where he is coming from here; but how is he not guilty of idolatry, when he has won all his court cases on the basis of the Constitution?
MacArthur went onto say that he does not need any secular intervention. It was almost like he believed that God can not use secular intervention for His purposes.

Was Paul guilty of idolatry after he was arrested and was released after he said that he was a Roman citizen?

Tom

Last edited by Tom; Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:34 PM.
Tom #56680 Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom
Up here in Canada, we have already lost some of our rights. For example, it was ruled by the Supreme Court of Canada, that all Educational Institutions must if they want to stay accredited remove all material from their Constitutions anything that they deem to be against things like premarital sex, homosexual sex etc... Unfortunately, many Christian Educational Institutions have given into these demands.
Acts 5:25-33 (ASV) 25 And there came one and told them, Behold, the men whom ye put in the prison are in the temple standing and teaching the people. 26 Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them, [but] without violence; for they feared the people, lest they should be stoned. 27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest asked them, 28 saying, We strictly charged you not to teach in this name: and behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us. 29 But Peter and the apostles answered and said, We must obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew, hanging him on a tree. 31 Him did God exalt with his right hand [to be] a Prince and a Saviour, to give repentance to Israel, and remission of sins. 32 And we are witnesses of these things; and [so is] the Holy Spirit, whom God hath given to them that obey him. 33 But they, when they heard this, were cut to the heart, and minded to slay them.

We are to obey the government when it does not require us to do what God has forbidden. And, we are to disobey the government when it forbids us to do what God requires. Peter and the other disciples' disregard for the order to desist from preaching the gospel was biblically defensible and they were more than willing to receive the punishment for their disobedience to the order, which was imprisonment. However, Scripture does not teach universal pacifism, e.g., using deadly force to preserve your own life, the life of your family or any other human being when it is threatened is biblically warranted. So, in practical terms, being arrested for disobeying some government order not to preach on the vile sinfulness of homosexuality, fornication, adultery, etc. is something which one would have to allow. But if a bunch of gestapo-like cops came into a church with firearms and threatened to kill anyone who did not obey, then the people's use of deadly force would be justified, regardless what the government's laws might be concerning armed resistance.


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Pilgrim

Thanks, that is helpful.

The case in Canada, where all our Christian Educational Institutions, are now forced by law, to take out anything in their constitutions that is against premarital sex and homosexual sex, etc, if they want to remain accredited.

Unfortunately, I am not aware of any Christian educational institutions in Canada that have not caved into these laws. They seem to think that keeping their accreditation is more important.

Though I understand them caving in , because accreditation is important to prospective students.

However, doing so in my opinion they might as well stop calling themselves "Christian".

I understand that in the USA, Christian educational institutions are starting to be threatened in similar ways.

Tom

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Well, as I see it looking at this situation briefly and perhaps admittedly superficially, a Christian has 3 options of which only one is legitimate and acceptable:

1. Go along with the PC and Cancel Culture pagans and never admit to what you 'really' believe to anyone but your closest friends. Of course, there is always the danger of one of your 'friends' being a Brown Shirt and reporting you to the PC police. From a biblical perspective, if one would take this path, then the more pressing matter is to examine oneself to see if they are really in the faith, i.e., regenerate. (Rom 8:5-10; 12:1,2)

2. Keep silent when asked about such 'taboo' subjects, or lie and pretend you are in agreement with the current godless agenda. You will go through any educational institution regardless whether they openly allow free speech and mature discussion on the 'forbidden' subjects or not. That way you will get the accredited degree and have an open door in the employment market. nono

3. Don't get all hung up on "accreditation". You would still get a degree from the college or university if it refused to comply to these pagan rules and therefore lost their accreditation standing. Simply put, the degree wouldn't be recognized by a secular accredited academic institution if you desired to do post graduate work. And,. I would like to think that many employers are looking for qualified candidates regardless of their educational source. The ones which are deemed "prestigious" and desire those who received degrees from the Ivy League schools, e.g., Harvard, Columbia, Princeton, Georgetown, etc. are usually not places a Christian would want to work anyway given that such places have no place for anyone with morals or ethics. igiveup



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Tom Offline OP
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Pretty much the way I see this as well.

Of course humanly speaking the Cancel Culture gets their wish because Christian institutions who choose to obey God, rather than men end up closing anyway.

What really bothers me in Canada, is our Charter of Rights and Freedoms is definitely being violated. Where as so far Churches like John MacArthur's in California, so far have won all their court battles based on the US Constitution; in Canada it as though the government could care less about the very Constitution that they were sworn into office to uphold.

A good Christian friend of mine and I were talking about elections this morning. We discussed how normally both of us usually vote for the Conservative Party and he is actually a member of the Conservatives. The Conservatives however, are weak kneed and are afraid to take a stand on these matters.

The only party that seems willing to do that is the Peoples Party of Canada, who I understand does not have chance. However, the way I am looking at this is if enough people get fed up with all the other parties, perhaps the People's Party will gain strength.
That party I believe is being painted as far right racists, etc...

Just thought I would add a link on the People's Party of Canada, that a friend sent me.
https://www.castanet.net/news/Penti...g-in-Interior-against-COVID-19-lockdowns


Tom

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This is the work of evil men/women/children who seek power and riches which Socialism/Communism promises (only to a select few who rule). So, is it really surprising that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms is trampled under foot? This oppressive political view knows no boundaries. MANY countries have been captured and destroyed by it and Canada and the United States are no longer an exception. America's Constitution of the United States is all but totally ignored by the Left. Their 'justification' is that in their view the Constitution must be understood as being a "living document", i.e., it must be interpreted and applied according to the 'norms of contemporary society' vs. it being a document that must be interpreted and applied as it was originally intended by its founders.

This type of view of founding documents is also very prevalent in the visible Christian Church. The Bible is simply a book of suggestions on how to live a happy and prosperous life and not about a sovereign holy God who created all things, providentially rules and controls all things, and holds all his creatures accountable to obey all His commandments. Mistakes have replaced Sin. Try Again has been substituted for Repentance. And worldliness has infected the minds of the vast majority of those who claim to be followers of Christ which is the determining philosophy of so-called Worship.

Tom, this is just the tip of the iceberg. The worst is yet to come.. and it WILL COME.

Quote
Mark 13:19-23 (ASV) 19 For those days shall be tribulation, such as there hath not been the like from the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never shall be. 20 And except the Lord had shortened the days, no flesh would have been saved; but for the elect's sake, whom he chose, he shortened the days. 21 And then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is the Christ; or, Lo, there; believe [it] not: 22 for there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show signs and wonders, that they may lead astray, if possible, the elect. 23 But take ye heed: behold, I have told you all things beforehand.


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Pilgrim

There is not a word that you said that I do not agree with.

Yet, other than prayer what can we do about this?

Tom



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